Buzzcast

YouTube and Twitter and Crickets, Oh My! + New Apple Podcasts Subscriptions Charts + Joe Rogan Not Recommended by Spotify

September 02, 2022 Buzzsprout Episode 84
Buzzcast
YouTube and Twitter and Crickets, Oh My! + New Apple Podcasts Subscriptions Charts + Joe Rogan Not Recommended by Spotify
Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

In this episode, the hosts recount their week in Dallas for Podcast Movement, review Apple Podcasts' new subscription charts, weigh in on the new Twitter & YouTube podcast announcements, and discuss Dan Misener's findings after mapping out the Spotify podcast recommendations.

PODCAST MOVEMENT
https://podcastmovement.com/
Crickets aside, it was a good time!

NEW APPLE PODCASTS CHARTS
https://podcasters.apple.com/4085-introducing-new-apple-podcasts-charts
The latest charts from Apple Podcasts allow listeners to browse the top 100 shows and channels with a subscription. 

YOUTUBE PODCAST LANDING PAGE
https://techcrunch.com/2022/08/22/youtube-launches-a-dedicated-podcasts-homepage-for-u-s-users/

TWITTER PODCASTS
https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/product/2022/listen-up-podcasts-are-coming-twitter

SPOTIFY RECOMMENDATIONS
https://wearebumper.com/blog/2022/08/22/spotify-episode-recommendation-algorithm/
Interactive version of map: https://wearebumper.com/features/spotify-podcast-recommendations/

Alban (45%), Kevin (36%), Jordan (19%)


Contact Buzzcast

Thanks for listening & keep podcasting!!

Alban:

Kevin? Why does your screen look like a hostage video?

Kevin:

I just jumped into the Buzzsprout studio. And I'm scrambling to get set up because I lost power in my office at home. So I quickly threw my laptop in my backpack and drove over the office. And now I'm sweating.

Jordan:

You only lose power in your office, or was it your whole house? What?

Kevin:

Okay, so here's what happened. My treadmill is set up. So that right in front of the treadmill is where you plug

Alban:

But to be clear, your treadmill is in your office, it into the wall. right? You've got like one of the peloton treadmill

Kevin:

My treadmill is in my office, right? And so I'm running on it, I got to like mile five, everything's feeling great. And then all of a sudden, the treadmill stops dead. Like and I almost killed myself, my wife had just left. And so I'm like, literally, like if I kill myself, like no one's gonna find my body for hours. After I recover from the slight heart attack of almost falling off a treadmill, it's completely dead. All the powers off of my office, I walk out the rest of the house power still on hmm, I got in the garage and the breaker had tripped. I'm like no big deal. So I tripped the breaker back. And as soon as I pop it over, it pops back again. So something is shorting out. And I walked back into the office and I looked at the outlet where the treadmill is plugged in and it's completely covered with my sweat. And I know I'm sorry. So what's happening is I'm sweating and it's dripping down onto the treadmill under my feet.

Jordan:

Do you run like with your head against the wall? Like,

Kevin:

No, no, it's the falling onto the spinning thing that thing is going underneath me. And when it comes back up, it's flinging all the sweat right into the outlet. And so the wall is completely soaked. And the outlet was like fried

Alban:

Our last episode, by the way. I mean, I know I already said this best episode. Best Buzzcast

Jordan:

It's really solid, like not to toot my own horn. But--toot!

Kevin:

I'm proud of Alban for just listening, because he usually does not listen to the episodes.

Alban:

I do listen to some of them, but not all. So maybe I just need to listen to more.

Kevin:

I feel like it's a good topic of conversation, like do podcasters or should podcasters listen to their own episodes after they publish them.

Jordan:

I do listen to my episodes. There was one time I was listening to an episode of the bedtime story podcast. And while I was folding laundry, just like give it a once over and I had accidentally left in like a loud burp. Because I was like I took a drink and then I burped. And I forgot to edit that out. And like thank God, I was listening to that because I'm sure that would be very jarring for people. So that's a that's my yes, definitely listen to your episodes story.

Kevin:

I think oftentimes we get lured into this false confidence because we've listened to it many especially well, if you're editing, right, you've listened to each piece of that hundreds of times by the time you're through the whole edit. And so then you're like, Oh, it's good. It's great. I don't want to sit around for 45 minutes and listen to the whole thing nonstop as a listener. But you're right, like every now and then you can make a mistake and you're edit, and unless you take the time to listen back. And so I always listen, I listen to it, you know, I speed it up a little bit. So I've already been present for the conversation. I don't have to reabsorb everything, but I just want to hear it. I want to experience it as a listener would. And so I'll listen on like 1.75 or 2x get through Buzzcast in 20 minutes.

Alban:

Kevin, you remember this when we first started Buzzcast like years ago with Travis, the first episode, Travis says the Edit and then I post all my feedback and thoughts. And it was like every two minutes like, Oh, I could have done this better this proof. And Travis's feedback immediately was like to be clear. All of this stuff is like a full new edit. And you're like I think I was just giving himself notes. No, yeah. This is it like for you. I'm not writing recording my own segments. So maybe it was a reactionary that I was like, I need to take a step away from this overload or poor editors.

Kevin:

Yeah. Well, that's another benefit of listening, right is like, how are you going to get better? If you're not listening? Yes. If you're just listening while you're editing, I don't think that's you're not really getting the experience that you're putting out to the world. So I think you have to listen, even if you're kind of like, gosh, I already know all this you I was already there. I said it all myself. Now you need to experience it the same way that your audience will.

Jordan:

Yeah. And you you have to listen to it through a lens of like, Where can I improve? There's so many times that I listened through and I'm just like, I've noticed that I tend to do this I tend to make editing harder on myself because I do these weird things or I say things you know. So I think I've gotten a lot better in the last like even year just from like listening myself over and over.

Alban:

One of my main takeaways from listening to the last episode was increased confidence in your ability, not as an editor of like, Oh, I'm cleaning up the sounds or removing an arm. But a Content Editor. Yeah, because there's parts where I remember the digression that went on at your PISA again, something I said and then Kevin's response in the middle there was like, two minutes of not really useful information. Good at it nice. So for anybody listening to these, these are actually quite a bit tightened up in real life, all three of us have a tendency to ramble and just say whatever pops into our brain.

Jordan:

When you were in Hawaii, I could tell that you were like, I don't want to say like lonely, but you just had like, talk to us a long time. Because that was such a long recording, like we record for like two and a half hours for that episode when you were in Hawaii. And I chopped out half of what you said, and you were still 38% of the conversation.

Alban:

Where do you keep a percentage, you have a role, you know how much each person was?

Jordan:

Otter.ai! When you transcribe, it'll show the percentage of the conversation so I can tell who's like dominating the episodes, because it'll tell me the percentages of who's talking.

Kevin:

Oh, that is interesting. You know what, we should start putting that into the description. Yeah, so in this episode Buzzcast Here's what we talked about. And then like at the bottom, say that Kevin spoke for this much, which will always be less than 10%? Probably

Alban:

no. 17% and

Jordan:

you hover around like 28-30.

Kevin:

Really? Yeah, you do I really upset because I got feedback one time that I don't say enough on the show. So now I'm like, self aware of that will

Alban:

have feedback from me.

Kevin:

No, it was, you know what it was? It was when we did the we were all out of town and Jordan did a takeover episode with crystal and who else was on Karianne Karianne. That's right, Karen and crystal and Jordan. And somebody said they were going to play my part. And then they made a joke about that just means I don't have to say anything. That was true. That cuts deep. So now I'm trying to talk more.

Jordan:

All right, so Podcast Movement 2022 in Dallas. We were there. We got to see a lot of Buzzcast listeners. Do you think

Kevin:

there were more podcasters there in the building? Or were there more mole crickets?

Alban:

Definitely in the vicinity of the hotel, the mole crickets are in the majority by a lot. Dallas had some incredible flooding right before we got there. And apparently that produces a like Old Testament style locust plague of mole crickets.

Kevin:

Right. The way somebody explained it to me a local explained to me was that the mold targets live in the ground. So most of the time, you'll just see them in your yard. They dig holes. They're a little bit of a problem for keeping a nice lawn, but they're good for the regular insect ecosystem, but usually not a problem. But then what happened the week before Podcast Movement was they had serious flooding. And when the ground floods completely, the mole crickets have to come out or else they'll drown. And so they were out and about and they were getting in everywhere. This is the Kevin gross stories episode. Evidently. I was having lunch one day I left the booth ran upstairs, grabbed a sandwich, sat down with Tom and we were talking in a mole cricket landed right next to my lunch like it's fell from the ceiling and landed right next to my sandwich. And we were like, Oh, it was pretty disgusting.

Jordan:

It was really really bad. They were in the hotel. They were in the bathrooms. They were in the elevators. They were absolutely everywhere. And one of the guys that we are with I'm not I'm gonna leave him nameless. But he said that when he was getting ready for bed one night, he was getting undressed and two crickets fell off his clothes. Everywhere.

Kevin:

Oh, no, I didn't have any climbing on my person. But I did find that mole crickets are pretty I mean, if you're gonna have an infestation of insects, they're pretty friendly little critters.

Alban:

I walked around I saw a lot I had no close encounters with the mole crickets. I was just shocked by how many there were. I heard a few people ended up with like one of their room and we're up all night like listening to periodic noises from the crickets luckily did not have that experience.

Jordan:

Well, there was one time we were in the bar in the lobby. And poor Alban like there was a guy that walked in and he had a mole cricket like on his shoulder or something. And Alban like, reached out to grab the cricket to like help him and the guy thought Alban was like attacking him, he's flailing and running away, because he thought it was and he was, he was so mad, like he was so angry and you're just trying to help,

Alban:

hey, you've got a cricket on your back. And I go to rush it and he takes off and then I'm like, Oh, you're you had quite a few more drinks than I thought. I just lost sight of him. He ran the corner and hopefully there was a resolution to the story, but I was not involved in it.

Jordan:

Yeah, looking at his face like I'm pretty sure he thought you're attacking him.

Alban:

I apologize if anyone thought I was trying to hit them in a bar. I was really trying to remove a cricket from your back. So not to harp on the crickets too much because this was a minor minor piece. It was maybe somewhat comical, but it didn't really affect the experience. These are like the highlight of my year, especially at least at the time. I get stuff like, we go. And we get to talk to Buzzsprout customers, we get to hear stories of people who are podcasting, that are using the tools we work on all year, I will never get old to me when someone tells us like, Oh, I'm a big fan of Buzzcast, or, I really enjoyed the YouTube video you did on this, or what people are recognizing Jalon for the YouTube channel, like every one of those experiences is a blast. I've just really appreciate getting to do those. And it always feels like we go and you get to learn something important about podcasting. Because this is a very concentrated group of people who are interested in the industry, lots people who share our interests. And there's something about being a person that I really, really missed, you know, from two and a half years of really being separate. And it felt totally different than maybe a year ago did when I was completely masked up. And you know, it was right during delta. So it's a totally different experience. It feels really good to be able to hang out and talk to podcasters and learn how they're using Buzzsprout. And what we could be doing better.

Jordan:

The thing that was really cool is in the difference between last year and this year, is you can see the growth of podcasting in just the diversity of the people like it's just such a diverse group of people that are getting together and all have this like common passion, you have something to talk about with everyone. They're like, you're just you're never alone, because you always have something in common with the person next to you regardless of anything else, you know. So that's really cool to to experience.

Kevin:

Yeah, I thought that again, this could be it probably is now that I'm thinking about it. I was gonna say I think I saw younger, more younger podcasters than I ever had before. Yeah, I also realized that I'm about three years older than I was last time. Maybe I'm just getting older.

Jordan:

No, they were there. It was it was younger group. But yeah,

Kevin:

I think podcasting is trending a little bit more younger, like on the Creator side, which was interesting. I agree. 100%. With what Alvin said, the most fun thing that we can do at a conference is just stand at the booth and how people come and say, Hey, I use Buzzsprout, to host my podcast and tell us a little bit about their experience. Maybe they have a question that we can help them with. But when you build software, and you just put it out in the world, you don't really know who's using it, or how they're using it or how it's impacting their life. So hearing those stories is like, I mean, you could do that forever. I'm an introverted guy. And so usually being around people doesn't give me energy, it takes it away. But that's how I recharge through these conferences is like every time somebody comes up and shares one of those stories, like I get a little recharge, and I can keep going a little bit longer.

Alban:

Love it. One of the highlights for me, our friend, Reggie, who I met seven years ago, at the first podcast movement I ever went to and ended up becoming close friends, he would fly from Texas to hang out with us in Jacksonville, and because of us became friends, he ended up changing career paths from construction, John at Buzzsprout, talked to him about programming. And he just like totally took it and ran with it. He taught himself rails, which is what we build Buzzsprout on. But then he's now like, a really, really high level systems reliability engineer at a really good company. And it was so much fun to like, hang out with him. It's been seven years, it's at the same event, you know, the cool connections you can make at a conference like this, where you do have something in common with everybody. And then it turned into a total career change. Like Jordan said, I think the cool thing is when you know everybody there, you share a really, really close connection on like something you're really passionate about podcasting, but that's always tied in with something else. It's not like maybe if I went to a comic book convention, everyone's into comic books. And so we're all like, because it's not that I'm going and I was like, Hey, what's your podcast about? And I had a really cool conversation with somebody who had a podcast about living with Parkinson's disease. And so we have a really intense, but also really positive discussion about living with Parkinson's. And then you hop into a new conversation, and somebody's telling you about their show where they're helping people start laundry mats, and like everything you should know, and you're starting a laundry mat. There's so many different interests. So you start talking to Eddie, buddy, do you have literally no idea what you're going to end up talking about two minutes later?

Jordan:

Well, one of the things that we had discussed and actually planned out on this show was the micro Mike game, which was a hit.

Alban:

Yeah, that was fun. I think it was a massive hit. Who knew? I think the execution was incredibly high. So good job to Jordan, who made those micro Mike shirts. It was a famous Michael.

Jordan:

I didn't I made the game, not the shirt. Oh, sorry.

Alban:

You made the handouts. Kevin made the shirt. Yeah, I did nothing. I was there at the inception of the game and then did no work and then tweeted about it. And people were like, great idea. We're all doing our part. Yeah, it

Jordan:

was funny because I saw like some photos circulating have like, you know, podcast swag or just from Podcast Movement and that the mic and mic game is just like sneaking in the background every now and then I'll see it in there. So that's really fun to watch. There was one girl that came by, and she actually makes her own jewelry. And she took a couple of the sheets because she wanted to cut out Michael Sarah's had to make earrings which is genius. Oh, man.

Kevin:

I was surprised. I mean, I'm glad we workshopped that live on a couple episodes ago, because I know that everybody wouldn't know all the mics. But I was surprised at how few people really were able to name all of the microphones on the shirt. I think I think I counted three people total that got all the microphones, right? But people had a blast with the like, they just gave up immediately on the microphones are like, I know one, that's the Blue Yeti. I don't know anything else. But then they're like, I know, you know, seven of these nine famous Michaels, I'm gonna go find out who these other two or three are. And they'd go meet with all their friends or ask people and come back with a complaint. It was a lot of fun. That was the

Jordan:

funny thing is people running around like asking who the Michaels were to other people.

Alban:

Did you notice we were right around the corner from kind of like the hardware aisle was where all the hardware vendors were near each other. Were right around the corner, and people would like disappear on that corner. And then would come back and be like, Oh, the electro voice or e 20. I don't like no, that's the guy selling it right over there. I know he did. It was also wild to be we had somebody who will remain nameless. Well, you know who you are. You listen to this podcast, who came up and said, I have no idea who this person is. And I said it's the most famous athlete of all time. And they're like, No, it's not. Yes, it is it like it's Michael Jordan. They're like, Oh, yeah.

Jordan:

Oh, man that was painful to watch.

Alban:

They do a lot of microphones. So that worked. Yeah, yeah, it's true. Shout out to Steven Robles, Riverside. Who does the apple Insider PodCast. He, I think got the high score. So obviously, the highest you could get would be 18. You got all nine Michaels and all nine of the microphones. I think he got every microphone and he got like seven of the Michaels.

Kevin:

That's pretty impressive. I mean, new all the microphones, you have to be a serious podcaster. Like really into tech. Yes. And then you also have this amazing like pop culture and athletes and like all this other knowledge in your head as well. Like you should be on Jeopardy. You've got a lot going on in there.

Alban:

Yeah, so shout out to Steven, if you want to see him reviewing some of the microphones he knows a lot about, you could check him out on the riverside YouTube channel. The other

Kevin:

thing that we live game plans on the show was the pop up party, which that happened as well. We forgot to do the QR code until day two. So if anybody stopped by birthday one, not they too might have missed the announcement about the pop up party. But it happened. We had a good number of people there. That was fun.

Jordan:

I'm actually surprised at how many people did scan the QR code because what Kevin did was created a document with a QR code and all it said was for a good time.dot.he printed it at the FedEx Office in the lobby and then slapped it on the table. And we had a lot of people,

Alban:

I will be honest, 0% chance I would have scanned that. I was pleasantly surprised that people came.

Kevin:

It wasn't written on the wall of a restroom. It was on the table at the Buzzsprout booth. I mean, it should have taken away some of your anxiety about scanning it. Yeah, next

Alban:

year, I think we need to have a better plan for getting the word out maybe a little bit sooner having the email my fault for not planning it. I played an opposite the biggest party at Podcast Movement, which we did get people there but next year could use a little bit better planning. So pop up party evolutions. I'm going to go ahead and right now guarantee for a good time come to that one.

Kevin:

Well, I think our party was a success. It just wasn't huge. But the iHeart party I heard some negative reviews of I haven't heard any negative reviews of our party because they said that our party was hot and super loud. Our party was not hot. I mean, it was like it was happening. But it wasn't hot. The temperature wasn't hot, and it wasn't super loud. There were some good conversations happening. So I think we did a good job.

Jordan:

You know what happened? We got lucky actually. Because originally it was planned for this like swanky little cigar lounge G bar in the foyer, and then that was closed and we ended up going to the sports bar. And I kind of somehow got us into that like back room that was like the game room. And that was way better. So

Kevin:

we had darts and we had Papa shot basketball, and it was a private room. It was fantastic. It worked out great. Lots of snacks. Yep. Unfortunately, there was a lot of people who had already gone to that subpar party. They didn't know that the Buzzsprout pop up party was happening. I think if they had known that it would our party would have been twice as big.

Alban:

Well, we'll figure it out. We'll have we've got a little bit of planning ready for next time. And another thing to look into would be to call and make sure you are open every day. I think that was maybe one of the questions I'll ask the location. When we got there. They're like, this bar is only open sometimes. I was like, how do you know? And they're like, well, it's not tonight. And that's all I got, too.

Jordan:

Did you hear what happened? No. Okay. There's a story. Yeah. So the bartender, who was working at the sports bar, when we went to that, he told me that we actually shut down the other bar, because it was just so swamped the couple nights before with podcasters. So they actually like, shut the bar down so that we couldn't go there.

Kevin:

Yeah, I didn't really understand that. It sounded like they have a bar because they want to sell bar stuff, right? That's their business, is whether you're drinking club soda or scotch, like that's your deal is selling drinks, right? When he said is that it was just too too many people the last couple nights. And so the management decided not to open it the next night.

Alban:

This sounds like when somebody's startup fails, and they have to kind of write the post mortem so that people invest in their next one. And they're like, our problem was, it was too successful.

Kevin:

There was too good.

Jordan:

Well, you know, what happened is he was the only guy managing the bar, because it's not usually like that. So he was the only one there both nights and people were there clear until it closed down at like, 2am. Right. And he was there cleaning up everything and closing up shop until like, 5am. So they literally like we're just like, we can't do it. Yeah.

Kevin:

That bartender, they moved over to the sports bar where we ended up and then we brought all our people over there. Yeah, so we're getting this guy either way. Yes, true. He was great. He was a nice guy.

Jordan:

There were a lot of announcements while we were in Dallas, for Podcast Movement, it kind of feels like everything just kind of like dropped all at once. So this is going to be the Dallas announcement episode I think is one of the first ones we have is new Apple podcasts, charts, which are really exciting.

Alban:

Yeah, this came out, I want to say between when we record plus cast, and we release Buzzcast. Anything that comes out during that period is such a bummer, because I'm like, oh, I want to talk about this right now. And you just know, we can't even say anything for two weeks. So Apple podcasts just launched two new charts, top subscriber shows and top subscriber channels. I'm sure listeners will remember Apple podcasts changed the nomenclature from you subscribe to a podcast to follow it. And now subscribing means paying like that's paid content. And it's honestly pretty interesting how quickly everybody has adopted that language. Now, when he talks about a subscription is a paid thing. Following is I'm just interested in this content. And I'm listening. Now they've launched these places. It's like here, the top shows where people are paying for content. And here are the top channels that people are paying for. And it's super interesting to see such a stark disconnect between the top three shows the top followed shows the ones that are supposedly played the most. And the types of content that people are paying for it was just to me when I'm looking through these lists feels much more varied.

Jordan:

It seems like a lot of the Top Paid shows tend to be like, obviously, of the true crime genre. But also in the comedy and fiction genres. There's so much content that's being paid for in those genres. And maybe it's what's offered, I don't listen to any, like political podcasts or anything like that. So I don't know if they typically offer paid content. Do you know, I know

Alban:

some of them do. But they always are at the very top of the normal charts. It's like the daily and up first, and it's like, here is the news today. But if we're looking at what are the top subscribers shows morbid and smartlace, something was wrong fed up, you know, wondery and Amazon shows, it's just interesting seeing how different the content is for people when they're paying for it. I think when people are voting with their wallets, we can see different types of shows come up to the top. Because all you really need is a small audience that really loves your content, rather than a really large audience that is just like, hey, being informed about the news is worth 20 minutes of my day. And I feel like that's why all those new shows really crushed the top charts. But if you start looking at the top subscriber shows, it's so much more varied. Because these are people are saying this is what's really important to me. This is like my favorite podcast, I'm willing to put money behind it.

Jordan:

What I noticed when looking at these charts is that it's entertainment, and sleep and relaxation that pretty much dominate the chart. I was shocked at how many sleep and relaxation things there are. So I think you're right that you can tell what people value in the subscriber charts because they're paying money. For, you know, quality sleep, and they're paying money for entertainment. So

Kevin:

I'm using it exactly how you guys are describing. I'm loving it, because I feel like there was one way that I found new podcasts. And that was I asked everybody in my life, what podcasts are you listening to. But now I have another way. Because, you know, podcasts are long form content. So it's hard to just browse, I don't know, around categories and try to find something and like, I don't have a lot of luck finding shows that I really like doing that. And so I've just resorted to the way I'm gonna find new podcasts is I'm gonna talk to people about podcasts, they'll tell me a few of their shows, I'll tell them a few of mine. And that's been my podcast discovery engine. But this offers another way, which is exactly what Alvin said, people are voting with their wallets, they're saying that this is good enough that I'm gonna pay for it, which like, eliminates 99% of the stuff that's not high quality. And so I don't think I'm gonna find a ton of podcasts here. But I'm certainly going to be checking this on a regular basis to see if there's anything I hadn't heard about that might be interesting. And I know no matter what it is, it's going to be high quality. Now, it might not be exactly the show for me. But it's a great starting point to find some new things. So I think this is fantastic. I'm gonna see more of this. This is awesome. Like, I'm loading the apple podcast app regularly now. And I don't use it as my daily podcast listening app. But I'm using it for this. So great job, Apple podcasting, more this,

Alban:

one of the things I always keep coming back to is if we want to avoid some of the negative things that happened with the rest of the internet, like that everything was sucked into the monetization strategy for everything was ads, YouTube is ads, news is ads, everything that we do is ads, were trying to keep us on platform all the time, and give up tons of attention. So they can sell little pieces of it to an advertiser. And we've just seen so many ways that that goes wrong. But if we want a different world, we have to pay for a different world. And we actually have to vote for that different world. I know my three favorite podcasts, I pay for him, one I don't have to pay for. But I've decided if this is worth hours of my time each week, then it's worth $5 a month. And I should be voting to say this is the content I want you to create, if you don't love it enough to pay a couple dollars. And you know, everybody has different financial situations. So I understand that what is $5 for one person may be, you know, not the same for somebody else. But just the fact that it's free doesn't mean that it's valuable, I guess. And it's tempting, when something's free to be like, Oh, I should be listening to all these podcasts. But if you're not willing to pay for it, maybe that's an indication that this isn't exactly the content that you find to be the most valuable.

Jordan:

I'm gonna counter you on that because I regularly listened to like 50 podcasts. And I would love to support them. But it would be like rent, or something.

Kevin:

You listen to a lot of podcasts, right.

Jordan:

It'd be like a week's of groceries for me to do.

Alban:

Years ago, Kevin had an idea for podcast player that you would pay a specific amount. And then that would be chopped up and given out to all the podcasters like pro rata for how much you were listening to their show. So maybe for me who's listening to somewhere on the order of like seven hours of podcasts a week, and you who maybe is listening to 24 Everybody's getting a little bit less from you. But you can't be spending $500 a month on podcasts I would love to is a pretty, like you're doing your financial planning. There's a $500 podcast budget line item.

Kevin:

Like I'm sure on the Netflix model. There's customers that they lose money on because they stream so much content. And then there's customers that make a lot of money on who don't really watch anything but continue to pay the $15 a month. Yeah, I'm sure happens in the music industry as well. Like people will subscribe to Spotify or Apple Music and they'll listen someone listened to a ton. And some will listen to not much. I don't know how the licensing works, maybe they they're covered no matter what. Or maybe there are customers that they actually lose money on because they listen to so much music. I don't know,

Jordan:

yeah, they probably lose money with me.

Kevin:

That model one day could come to podcasting. But it just takes years and years and years to get to that point. And then usually when you get to that point, then there's all these middlemen involved. Like the record labels are the mediator between the contracts with the Spotify and the apple musics. It's not really the artists. And so if we want to keep all that stuff out, what we have to do is Jordan, maybe you listen to too many to support them all. But maybe you can find a few that you say okay, I can spend $20 a month on podcasting. So I'm going to choose this month to spend in this direction and support creators.

Jordan:

My brain always does like the all or nothing sort of thing. And so for me, it's like, well, I can't afford to like do all these podcasts. I guess I'm doing none. Right picking like a favorite child. Right? So you're right, like maybe I could, you know, just sit down like the beginning of the month and be like, Okay, who's getting my money this month?

Kevin:

Maybe there's a way to do it. It's one of the problems that the value for value system and podcasting helps to address that problem. And I know that's this is you know, cutting in tech and there's really some shows that will do well on it depending on your audiences in some shows that will not the nice thing about Apple podcasts is it reaches so many people that there's there's a really good chance that regardless of what you're podcasting about that you've got a large percentage of your audience is listening on Apple pocket So, but the value for value model gives you the option to either stream SATs while you're listening, like so many per minute, or you can just boost. And so the nice thing about that is every month, you could just deposit like $20 into your podcast or wallet, and then you could boost it out as you're listening to episodes. And when you're out of money, you're out of money for the month, like I'm not gonna refill this wallet until next month. I'm a discipline podcast. Right, so YouTube launched a couple pages that are specific for listing podcasts. And my understanding is that this is nothing new, like they're not ingesting RSS feeds and putting podcasts on YouTube that weren't there before. This is just an editorialized collection of podcasts. So air quotes podcasts, because these are really just YouTube channels, YouTube videos that self identify as podcasts. Again, I don't want to get into this debate. I will call them podcasts. Fine. It's a podcast. I'm just saying it's not something that's like an audio first experience. It's like a video first experience, and they are collecting them together and presenting them on a page. So given that description, what do we think good for the podcast industry bad for the podcast industry? What are your thoughts?

Jordan:

I give it a thumbs down. At first I went to YouTube, they have podcasts as a button at the top of the page, like a genre, you can click and I click that. And that's not the podcast page, you have to actually go like from your homepage to explore. And then you can click on podcast from the Explore page. And that's the actual like official podcast landing page. But when I went to it, I was shocked to see that in my recommended list all of the podcast were MMA podcasts. I was like, What is this? This is so weird, why would it recommend it to me? And then so I went into another account that I have. And that also was recommending, like wrestling and MMA and then so I reached out to some people this morning, and I was like, Hey, can you tell me what your YouTube recommendations are for podcasts, and they have the same thing. So it sounds to me like YouTube is only recommending MMA and wrestling to people.

Alban:

I'm maybe a little bit more positive on this, though. I feel like this announcement is not that big. I mean, it really is YouTube finally launched a landing page for podcasts. But I went to Kai choc he's the head of podcast for YouTube talk. And it does sound like there's quite a bit more coming. I think the one quote that struck me was, I think it was one of the people from RoosterTeeth was their they've been on YouTube forever. And it built a big podcasting network. And they'd say, you know, people watch the clips, then they watch the long videos, and then they click to go subscribe in a podcast app. And guys, like, I don't like that people are leaving YouTube to listen to audio, we might need to do something about that. And so I think there's more coming. But what they had here is, there's a landing page, and we've started doing a better job of collecting all of the existing podcast content together in one area. So I think that's cool. The thing that YouTube has consistently been saying, and all these conferences we've been going to they're basically trying to make the pitch you love podcasts, YouTube does podcast? Well, a lot of research shows that lots of people, especially younger listeners, are listening on YouTube. And then they kind of go through the feature list with a podcaster. And they say, Isn't this good for podcasting? Isn't this good. So they talk about analytics, and being able to dive into the data and the engagement of video and how people really enjoy watching video. And then they talk about comments section and the feedback that you can get from listeners and build a community. And then they talk about discoverability and how that's aided by YouTube. And I think all of that's true. I almost feel like if YouTube had not allowed podcasters to be on YouTube for so long, and then launched what they have right now, hey, you could put your full podcasts up on YouTube, there'll be a video, it'll have all the normal video features and has its own page. There'll be more excitement. But it's almost like they're just acknowledging we know you all have been doing this. And it's actually kind of a good idea. And we're going to give you some focus now. So I think it could be good. I have the same experience as you though Jordan that the content recommended here. It's not for me, I don't have all MMA, but it should be youtube.com/broadcasts because these are all dudes talking with other dudes about like, Dude stuff, not the kind of stuff that I'm on YouTube watching. So I'd like to know what they're using to recommend or if it's just like Russell Brand talking to people about something is like that's the most popular thing that's on YouTube right now in the podcast genre.

Jordan:

What's funny about that is that it says under the recommended title, it says based on your subscriptions and history, and I can guarantee you that there is nothing in my viewing history remotely close to what they have. So maybe it's broken, I don't know.

Kevin:

So like regardless of the quality of the recommendations because that's YouTube's deal. Like, they will get that right at some point. So maybe maybe they're just hitting some bumps as they roll this out, I'm thinking about the impact to podcasters and podcast creators. And I'm cautiously pessimistic, which I recognize that that usually goes the other direction. But I'm a little bit pessimistic here. This is reminiscent to me of what happened in the blogging world, where blogging for a long time was you could choose you know, whatever service, you wanted to run your blog on whatever technology you wanted to use to publish your own blog. And you were publishing it out. And there was this great world of different like RSS readers, which were basically news readers and consume the content however you wanted, you could publish whoever you wanted, it was this big, open ecosystem, and everybody was doing their own things. And the way that you found the cool new blog was by talking to people or by stumbling upon it, and then what happened was, Facebook came along and they said, hey, you know, we can do, we can bring all this content together, and only show you the stuff that you're gonna love. And they kind of killed the blogging world. And at the end of the day, I'm just not sure that we live in a better world because of that. Now, I'm not being doom and gloom, this is what's happening to podcasting, or that YouTube is going to completely destroy the open podcast ecosystem. But I am cautiously pessimistic of stuff like this, because it could end up going in that direction. Yeah, I can see that too. If people start saying, I'm gonna listen to a podcast, I'm gonna fire up YouTube, well, then, you know, you're gonna find you're gonna find the stuff that YouTube thinks you want to see. And I don't want to be a conspiracy theorist. But it could be two years from now we're talking to Jordan. And she's like, did you catch an MMA fight? The biggest man in the world, like they completely convert her to an MMA fan. Maybe I like Jordan as she is, and she doesn't like MMA right now stop trying to make her like YouTube. So I mean, maybe that happens, maybe it doesn't.

Alban:

We've talked about the New York Times podcast, rabbit, hole, rabbit hole. And it was all about people who kind of got on YouTube, and just kept clicking the recommended video Kleenex when clicking the next one. And they get into more and more fringy views. And it's just always the thing that's a little bit more intense, or a little bit more provocative than the version you were watching. And pretty quickly, you're looking at something that's not really mainstream science, it's pretty fringe stuff. And you're taking it as cold, hard truth, because the world you're living in, is really insular, and you're not really being faced with like different views. When the media you're consuming is dictated by an algorithm or is recommended by an algorithm, you are really giving up that control. And one of the benefits of podcasts discovery, not being too easy, is you're opting in and opting out, and you say, this is the kind of content I want, and you go and you seek it out, rather than having somebody else or an algorithm, really picking what you want to watch.

Kevin:

To me to wrap this up. Like, I don't think this is really about I know a lot of people who have been in the podcasting industry for a long time, they want a debate about whether these are really podcasts or not. And does this fit the definition of a podcast? Or does it not? That can be a fun, interesting conversation. But if we get lured into that being the most important thing that's happening here, I think we're gonna miss the bigger picture. And the bigger picture is whether you call it a podcast or not, is this the direction that we want the space to move?

Alban:

Speaking of a new platform in the podcasting space, have you had a chance to look at Twitter podcasts,

Jordan:

my wildly popular account was not chosen for the podcasts beta. So I've seen secondhand screenshots of the Twitter podcast, but I'm excited to try it. When I do get the chance.

Alban:

I feel that my opinion of this is highly swayed by the fact that I don't have access to it. And I'm just looking at it secondhand. So take this with a grain of salt is an interesting idea. Twitter has been kind of on a roll lately trying to become a bit more of a creator platform. They've added a newsletter product, they've added the ability for you to write longer pieces more like blog posts, they've added super followers. And then they added something where it was aggregating all the news articles your friend shared and showing the most popular ones. And now they're kind of doing the same with podcasts. So it's an interesting idea is pretty much curated lists of groups of apps that Twitter has built. And it looks like they find out what kind of accounts you follow what kind of interests you have. So it sees technology as one for you. They're like, Oh, here are 10 Really good podcasts that we think you would enjoy. And then there's a listening experience right inside of Twitter.

Kevin:

I feel like there's larger things happening here. At one point, technology and software started to move in the direction of apps that did more seem to win write software that was the one stop shop solution for all your, whatever business needs or whatever, you can get posted stamps, and we can do your payroll and we can do it. And then when the iPhone launched, there was this new concept of like a micro app, like an app that was just so specific. I'm gonna launch this piece of software just to tell me whether I don't even think they were joking. cast it out, like beyond 24 hours, the whole purpose of this software application is to tell me the same thing that I could find out by just looking up in the sky. So it felt really small, you know, and then we embrace that for a long period of time, like these dedicated pieces of software that just did these specific things really well, that felt really good. It was a mind shift. But like the software launched quickly, it was very specific, it was very easy to use. And it did one thing I did it well, and now there's like a shift that's happening where they need to start doing more. Well, what is Twitter doing? Well, Twitter is a place that you can go and you can write used to be 140 characters. That was it. And it's just becoming more and more and more now it's they doubled the number of characters. And now you can write long form content. And now you can have Twitter spaces. And now it's an audio app. It's like everything is becoming everything. And I don't know that I'd like the trend. And I know this isn't really specific to what are my thoughts on Twitter, putting podcasts inside their app, but I'm thinking larger? Like, does this make me want to use Twitter more or less, and I'm like, blasts, I want Twitter just to be Twitter. Maybe again, we talked about this earlier, themes for the show, Kevin getting old, maybe I'm just getting old. And I can't wrap my mind around things doing more than they're supposed to do. But it's like, I just want the Twitter to be the Twitter and I want the Instagram to be an Instagram. Why did I love Instagram because I can go and I could follow somebody, I can see the pictures, their pictures, but I can't even follow my kids on Instagram anymore, because it's just it's all the college kids doing their rush week dances on Instagram. That's not what I come to Instagram for. I wanted to see the pictures from last week when me but I don't see pictures anymore. It's like completely overrun with video. Anyway, I get it, that they're not building the app for me. But there's nobody who's like holding on to like, here was the magic of what we created originally, and how to retain that magic, make it better. Don't make it better by making it something different or making it everything to everybody. I think you start to lose the magic of the apps. But let me bring it back when I launched Apple news. That is a news app that I use on occasion. And Apple news has have these audio stories inside of Apple news from time to time. And sometimes it's something that I'm interested in, it'll list a topic, it'll be like, you know, whatever, crickets overrun Dallas, and I'm like, oh, what's going on with that, but it's an audio story. And so what I'll do is I'll tap on it thinking I'm going to read the news article about and it starts playing the audio. And I'm like, Oh, I didn't notice it was an audio story. But I stopped it immediately. And I move on. Why? Because in my mind, I'm like in reading mode. I'm like quiet in bed or something my wife sleeping next to me that starts playing this audio storage, like what are you doing? Right? And so it's not what I'm mentally in the mood, like I'm not prepared for that experience. And to me, it's it's the wrong place to put it. Now the Apple news team I'm sure is like a be testing this and figuring it out. But for me, the context switching of like I'm reading versus I'm listening seems off. And I seem to get that same experience with what Twitter is doing when I don't participate a lot in Twitter. But again, if I did, the experience that I would want to see, or that I'm looking to engage in are short thoughts from different people or links to articles. But again, it's more reading, it's not audio. And so I don't know that it's going to be a big thing for me. Maybe it catches on maybe it doesn't. But again, bigger theme for me. It's like, gosh, apps, just be who you are, like, embrace who you are your wonderful beautiful things. Why do you have to try to go and change and be everything to everybody?

Alban:

Okay? I'm with you, Kevin, I wish Instagram would be instagram and twitter would be Twitter, and they'd all be themselves. I just don't think this is the future we're in for, I think it's gonna be a lot more of the blatant copy, not less.

Kevin:

Well, I think what we need to do is get on, there's this tag that the podcast namespace project is working on. It's called the block tag. And I think we've got to get this figured out and standardized and rolled out sooner than later. Because right now, podcasts are open, they just live in an RSS feed, and anybody on any platform can start bringing them in, anybody can go download the podcast index database. If YouTube wanted to have 4 million podcast tomorrow, they could easily do that. And we have no way as podcasters of saying, Hey, I don't want my podcast in YouTube, I don't want my podcast on Twitter. But the block tag, that's what the whole idea behind it is, is it's you as the creator being able to have control over where your content lives. And for most creators, that is everywhere. For most creators, they would say I would want my I give my podcast away for free. I wanted to reach as many people as possible. And so I would do like everybody can use it. But for some like for this podcast in particular, we don't want our podcast and Spotify. We've talked about the reasons. So we don't need to go into them now. But we don't push this podcast in the Spotify. But it has happened that Spotify has somehow ingested this podcast before. And then we have to write them and say, Can you please take it out? They do. But it's something that we have to continue to monitor. It would be nice to be able to have a blog tag because I would I don't want our podcasts and Twitter. So I would say block Twitter, block YouTube block Spotify. Why? Because I think what you do is by continuing to feed them more content is that you're just like putting another pebble on the pile of their success. And ultimately, I don't think their vision of what podcasting is aligned with our vision. I think their vision is what Alban just said, their vision is that we need as much tension as possible because we're going to sell that attention. And we don't care where that attention comes from. Whether it's a song from a musician or a podcaster or a dance Vidyo, it doesn't matter, attention is attention, and we will monetize it for our benefit. And so if we're going to create content, we've got a different vision for what the value is of that content. And it's not just to sell advertising against it. And so I don't want to contribute to them building their empires bigger. Now, is my little pebble on the huge pile gonna make a difference? Probably not. But it helps me sleep better. And it's my content, and I get to choose, right? So my choice is no, I'm not saying you have to make the same choice. So I'm not saying Jordan that you shouldn't push your podcast to Spotify, I'm just saying that you should have the choice of whether you want to be in Spotify or not to Spotify

Alban:

as credit, they are the opt in system where you actually do need to submit a podcast and they've been very good when I think was really happy as other people submit our RSS feed because they want to listen to it in their player. And Spotify has always been good at removing it when they're notified. I think I disagree with you on what my decision would be about where to put the podcast, I would be much more open with anywhere that wants to have it that is not, in my mind, like antagonistic to the idea of podcasting that I really like, which right now is only Spotify. Anybody that's not doing that I'm cool that you have our content. But you know, we should be allowed to vote with our content, and enter and leave platforms as we decide. One person who took his content somewhere different and maybe regretting it a little bit now is Joe Rogan. There's a really interesting article from Dan Meisner called I made a map of Spotify podcast recommendations. Here's what I learned. And the biggest takeaway is Spotify never recommends Joe Rogan, the biggest podcast on their platform.

Jordan:

I think the biggest thing for me was that I didn't realize that Spotify only recommends on an episode level, it does not recommend shows as a whole. That was a big one to me. But I mean, it was pretty shocking that they do not recommend Joe Rogan. They've recommended podcasts that he has guest on, such as like Mike Tyson's podcast or, you know, things like that, but they never do with the Joe Rogan experience.

Alban:

I mean, there's two things that are interesting about that for me, one is, this is kind of the I mean, Joe's fine, he made whatever $200 million for going to Spotify. So nothing was really lost there for him. But the takeaway that we've always talked about is now been borne out, you know, he seems to have lost about half of his listeners by going exclusive. There's some really interesting work. I think it was actually Carmen in the verge right when she was at the verge wrote an article about estimating Joe's influence in pop culture. And it really went down when he went to Spotify, possibly for the better. But he now is realizing like that went down. And also I'm not going to get the recommendations that probably Spotify, you know, at least hinted that they were going to give them and that to me kind of one highlights the problem when Spotify is interest and Joe's interests are no longer aligned. They're going to go with their interests, they paid the money, and Joe got the money. And so they call the shots, and he doesn't. And I think what happened was maybe it's a few different reasons why they ended up making this call to not recommend this content because it is clearly as a decision. One could just be all of this content in the eyes of Spotify is so damaging, or they just dislike it so much. They won't recommend it. But one that does make sense to me is that they know Joe Rogan's going to leave. So what Spotify realized it was a really good insight was people will move podcast players for their favorite content. That is why they bought gimlet and why they got so many great podcasts to come and be exclusive to Spotify. They knew people would drop their current player and jump over to Spotify. And once you're using two apps, you might as well just use one. So I'll just use my Spotify app, now that they got so many people to move over when they acquired Joe Rogan. I wonder if they're seeing the writing on the wall. He's probably on the way out after this licensing deals done. And we're not really interested in more people listening to his podcast, they already got the value, the value being millions of people who listened to his show are now all using Spotify. And maybe they're thinking when he leaves, a lot of them will stay. But we're not really interested in taking existing Spotify users, existing podcast listeners on Spotify, and recommending a new podcast that will likely not be on Spotify in a few years. So you know, I'm not sure it could just be a combination of these things. But it does feel to me like the writing on the wall is maybe there a little bit more clear now that Joe might be on his way out?

Jordan:

Yeah, I mean, it's it's interesting, because even like the top episodes charts on Spotify, he actually only has like, a handful of episodes in the top charts. And I'm going like clear down to like the 200 I'm curious if that was such a great investment by Spotify, because I think it was like, what, like 181 million or something crazy like that, that they paid.

Alban:

I think the reported number now is 200 million. It seemed like for a long time, everyone was saying 100. And then New York Times a few years later reported 200 million. But I think it does help like underscore why Spotify saw the value that was really big in Spotify, gaining market share in podcasting, and they got it. I just think that their interests with Joe Rogan are no longer aligned. He's trying to build a media empire and talk to his friends. And Spotify is interested in more people using their app. And as soon as they said, Listen, we don't really love the content you're doing. It keeps being controversial and getting us into these weird arguments online. We're not going to do that anymore. Yeah, it makes sense for them to say we're not going to recommend it. And this is kind of what goes back to what Kevin's saying you live by the platform, you die by the platform, the minute that things don't align for them anymore. They're gonna cut you off.

Kevin:

Which if you're Joe Rogan, probably not a huge deal.

Jordan:

Yeah. You know, what's really fascinating about one of Dan's other findings, was that only 14% of the recommended episodes are Spotify, originals, and exclusives, I really thought that that would be a lot higher.

Alban:

I did, too. Wasn't this like my conspiracy theory? A while back that they were going to heavily recommend their own content? Yeah, I'd be interested in knowing like, is there a slight bias towards recommending their own content over recommending content from outside sources? But now it's starting to seem like probably there isn't?

Jordan:

Yeah, I don't think so. And by a lot,

Kevin:

the interesting question, if you want to go down that trail would be how much are they recommending that is hosted by properties that they own. So think of megaphone and anchor as being two big podcast hosting platforms that they own, how much of the content that they're recommending is that remember, Spotify, like we talked about earlier in the episode, a platform that's interested in getting as much attention as possible, and then monetizing that attention, and they don't care if they monetize it through your listening to one of their exclusive shows are a show that they hosted, they still get a piece of that pie. And so I have a feeling that if they're not doing that yet, that that's the plan. So yeah, let's go some histograms.

Alban:

Jordan, can you hit the button? You got to hit it, so we get pumped? Sorry, hold on. There's a button in the button in Riverside.

Jordan:

I don't have a button in Riverside. Hold on. Let me look. And now,

Alban:

as the French say, it is timeful loosed. Welcome to the booster gram corner, which in previous episodes has become the Dave Jones Garner. With a value for value enabled app, Davy Jones, I'm sure we will hear something from you. But looks like Kevin, you posted some and there's people that aren't Dave. So let's get started.

Kevin:

Yeah, the first one from at mere mortals podcast. How do you guys adjust your histograms? I sent one on August 4, and it says it went through your node properly. Hope it gets there. I'm guessing you're asking because you didn't hear it on the show. Probably not a node problem. Node is the technology that pushes these things through the internet. Not a node problem. Probably just a me problem. I probably missed it. But I will read it now. So that one backlog is for it says boosting you guys to implement the lit tag into Buzzsprout. Just put it far into the background. So only I can find it if you're worried about user experience. Yeah, we're still thinking about it. We had a lot of conversations at Podcast Movement about the lit tag and how it works and how we could use it. So it's something we're thinking about and we didn't miss your boost.

Alban:

We also have nine Satoshis from Andy Lehmann. My podcast dudes and dad's podcast is value for value enable. It's awesome. It's so fun. So Kevin, I think of the last one you threw out that if people told you it was value for value enabled, you'd go and you do a review. So yep,

Kevin:

so check out dudes and dads podcast search for that and then send them some stats. I'm gonna give you a special sound for that one. I asked the rooster booster. Who made the Jordan hates this?

Jordan:

I'm editing it out. Yes,

Kevin:

that's illegal. Can't speak. Then. They did.

Jordan:

Kyle Hiebert, Hebert, Hubert I would

Kevin:

say Hiebert. Yeah,

Alban:

so to Hebert Hmm.

Jordan:

So Kyle heaver Alright, let's

Kevin:

spell it so that people can find them how Heber Kyle Oh, my

Jordan:

bbe RT? Can I read this boost? Go? All right, Kyle says avid listener love the show. I'm a voice actor from Dragon Ball Super superhero. So cool. Now in theaters, and I play go hand I host a comedy slash geek news podcast called The intergalactic boombox. Hope you listen sometime. That's really cool, actually, like very cool.

Alban:

I'm pretty confident personal listens to this podcast really into your life. Big boombox. Yeah, we need to go check it out. But I think that this is not like a tiny little show. I think this actually is pretty big. And obviously, being a voice actor in the drywall super. I used to watch Dragonball Z when I was younger, so might be worth checking out. Thank you. And that was 18,000 Satoshis. So that's a real boost. That's a big

Kevin:

sound. Who's to boost it? There it is.

Jordan:

God's Gross. Gross.

Alban:

We got 900 Satoshis from Dr. Krishna goddess. Hello, Kevin. Alvin and Jordan. Love your show you guys rock. I do a podcast for medical students. Clinical neurology with KD my episodes around 15 minutes. When will Buzzsprout ads change the cut off episode for ads from 23 minutes. humble request on my end, please change that cut off at the earliest. Thank you. I think great feedback. It was actually feedback. I heard at Podcast Movement. Yeah, there's a lot of people with shorter episodes that are looking to start monetize their podcasts. Our thinking was, it's a bit difficult to you know, find a good insertion point in something is like a seven minute episode or maybe even a 15 minute episode. So we had to come up with an arbitrary number of 23. Were in the middle feel felt appropriate more than 12 minutes from the beginning more than 12 minutes from the end. But we had a lot of recommendations about maybe doing his mid roll or doing this pre rolls instead. So love the feedback. Thank you so much.

Kevin:

Yeah, I'll tell you we have some ideas on that. So it's not going to happen like next week, but we're continuing to workshop the ideas and we have a good one. So I think I think you'll see that sooner than later. All right. 22,500 SATs from Dave Jones says this is yeah, it's a lot to buy a coffee like a real one. Like a Frou Frou one from Starbucks. Everyone in the office will have to share it though. Sorry, Jordan, I know you're remote. So I'll just have to trust that you have your own solid coffee experience. Yeah. So Thanks for the coffee, Dave.

Jordan:

Oh, and then Davy Jones circled back around. He says Jordan, here you go. You'll have to get a small though. This is all I had left my lightning wallet. Thank you Dave for thinking of me. You're the only one who ever does. So. I really appreciate it.

Kevin:

Oh, super nice. Another 10,000 SATs. I don't know what the SAT $2 conversion is but I feel like I feel like Dave does. If anybody knows Dave does. So I'm sure that's enough for a year on coffee. I

Alban:

think he gave Kevin and I like $4.50 to split. And Jordan. You can get like a $2.20 cent coffee so

Jordan:

I could go like McDonald's. Yeah. The black coffee. That was

Alban:

all that was left and Dave Jones lightning Wallet. So I hope you enjoy Kevin. I will be sharing a tall mocha latte together. We'll both get a sip. And we have 450 Satoshis from Tom Raftery. Hey, folks, I love the podcast. Thanks and keep up the great work. I run two podcasts, the twice weekly digital supply chain podcasts, and the weekly climate 21 podcast which focuses on highlighting successful climate stories. Oh, sounds actually really cool. Yeah. Hopefully you migrate the community off Facebook as I can't access it there. And on the podcast ads, I'd love to be able to monetize my back catalogue. Weird use case, I know. But it'd be great if I could say for example, add ads to all episodes older than 30 days are similar. Nice thing about those two grams is you can put a lot in there for 450 Satoshis. Yeah, I agree. Thank you for telling us about the podcast, I need to check out climate 21 Maybe that will be my homework will that'll be one of the ones I can check out. I also agree we should get off of Facebook get our community is just a big project. So we need to some point say it's over with Facebook and move on. It's in our heart. Kevin wants to do it. I want to do it. Jordan wants to do it. Everybody at Buzzsprout wants to do it. It's just a big project. We've got to prioritize it at some point.

Kevin:

Great. And one final boost. 1900 more sets coming in from Dave Jones. And he says okay, I pulled over driving home from Podcast Movement to send a boost when I heard Kevin's attempt at an Australian accent that's just solid podcasting. You know, I couldn't agree more. I've been working on it for years. Thanks, mate. Perfect.

Jordan:

Um, I would like to point out that earlier he had said that I got a small black coffee because it's all he had left his lightning wallet and then miraculously had more. Oh, he might owe me a cough. When we go to evolutions.

Alban:

We did get to see Dave Jones in person, which was one of the highlights of podcasts. He gave a talk about podcast index podcasting. 2.0 He did it with Adam curry. And yeah, it's great to see him and Dave next time we see you George is gonna be hunting for that coffee.

Jordan:

I will also accept a beer. That's fine. All right. Well, with that, thank you for listening and keep podcasting You're

Alban:

currently trying to buy a 30 year old vehicle. You are Yeah.

Kevin:

Why telling you Alban sit on this one sit on this one for a little bit. Like I want to encourage this, but I feel like you should sit on it.

Jordan:

Okay, so what car are we talking like a 30 year old car is pretty old Alvin's

Kevin:

talking about buying

Alban:

a Nissan Altima from 99 Every song

Kevin:

No you're not. You're talking about buying like a really cool old truck as a hobby car, right? Like one of those ones that has like a gas cans strapped on the back exactly one of those who think hunting supplies up on the roof and a snorkel so he can drive through water, like a hobby truck. Sounds expensive. This is a thing in the South. I don't know if you have them where you are. Yeah, yeah, you're thinking of like a Land Cruiser.

Alban:

Yeah, Kevin, I've already gone and driven it your way in, I found someone in town, they buy really, really the ones that are really good shape. And then they do some extra work on them, and they make them into more off roading cars. The thing is, I don't drive, my daily driver at all daily driver is not an accurate description of my vehicle because Maria has a nicer car. And that's our family car. And we almost never are driving at the same time. The only thing I ever drive is to go to work to see Kevin about once a week. And sometimes I go to Target. And that's it. Everything else I'm driving with other people, or I'm just walking somewhere. But in the south, there's not like walkable cities. And so if you do need to drive, you need to have access to a vehicle. And so this was the perfect setup for what I've always wanted, which is an old Land Cruiser or old Jeep, something that totally unreliable and fun. And this is my chance. And there's one in Jacksonville. So is it a jeep? No, it's a 1993 Land Cruiser.

Jordan:

Oh, okay, that's a lot cooler. I used to okay, I used to work in this firm, and there was a receptionist there who was in a jeep club. And that's like, all she ever talked about was this Jeep club. And it kind turned into like an inside joke. But they had these like really expensive new Jeeps. And every weekend they would go out with their club, like their whole thing doing like the Jeep stuff. And inevitably, a Jeep would like break down. And that was like part of the fun was fixing it. And I will never relate to that kind of person. But I didn't really like take you as a mechanic, you don't strike me as the kind of guy that like into that has a bunch of crap in your garage. Yeah, his fingernails

Kevin:

are always very clean.

Alban:

to Georgia, my first car was a 1995 Pontiac Firebird that I drove while I was a lawyer, that's cool. It was not cool by the end. And also cars are very cool. Then I went and bought a truck. And then I became a dad and had to get a Volkswagen so that there was a backseat for a child. And now I have the opportunity to go buy something totally impractical. That only is really valuable. For driving off road.

Kevin:

Yeah, you're talking about buying a hobby truck. And what I'm suggesting is that as fun as it sounds, I feel like it's a decision that you just want to sit on just a little bit longer than you have. And maybe maybe you've been baking this a little bit longer than I've been aware of. But you told me about this idea about a month ago. And I think from inception of the idea if it's been a month to today, I think is too quick to jump into a hobby car.

Alban:

The problem is I've already talked to too many people who love the idea. And Kevin does this. When I have an idea that I get excited about what I do is I selectively ask people who are likely to affirm the idea.

Kevin:

You went to a vintage rock show and started asking around do you think is a good idea?

Alban:

And the moment that I knew like this might happen is when he goes Hmm, that's a lot of money to spend on a truck that many miles. And then she started looking up old Land Cruisers. It was like, Whoa, people are really into these. Some are so expensive. Might be a good idea.

Jordan:

Okay, so your wife's on board to Okay, that's I don't

Kevin:

think it's I don't think it's the money. I think what it is, is the it's the commitment in terms of time, like, are you going to be fine with the idea that, Oh, I need to go into the office today. And Marie is out with her car. And so I'm gonna go take my truck, and then you get in and you turn the key and nothing happens. Because that's, that's part of the experience. And unless you're like, cool, I get to work on that this weekend. I mean, I had a whole bunch of other stuff I had to do this weekend, but now I can't do any of it because I get to work on my truck. And that's awesome. Yeah. If that's not the attitude you can have, then this lifestyle is not for you.

Alban:

This may not be the lifestyle for me, but we'll see. The problem is Lloyd who works at Stream care which Buzzsprout is part of a larger company. And one of them is this company called stream care. The person who runs stream care is named Lloyd. And he has the same land cruiser he's had since he was 15 years old. So over 20 years of Land Cruiser ownership. And I think this is because it's just like he's so into it. And I was getting a lot of positive affirmation today in the office. So maybe this will be this will definitely be a bad idea. If I do it. The question is, will it be enough fun to outweigh the bad idea?

Jordan:

You know, my dad had a Land Cruiser when I was a kid, and he regrets getting rid of it. I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure he regrets it. It's they're cool cars like they're cool. Yeah,

Kevin:

I think it's a great hobby, and people who are into it, love it. I just think you you have to recognize that this is just not a fun car that you're buying. This is a lifestyle change. And it's you have to have the right attitude for lifestyle change. So I'm in full support of you saying yes, I just want you to not regret it.

Alban:

I'm adopting a car. You Yes, he's in.

Jordan:

That's absolutely what's going to happen. It's going to be a lot of money. It's going to be like probably a college tuition. By the time you're all done with it.

Alban:

It's better be in state, Bright Futures Florida bright future,

Kevin:

I will join you in the efforts like yeah, when you're like it's time for a new carburetor. Bring it over. I would love to do that stuff with you. It'd be super fun. I just I can't adopt the lifestyle myself. I can do respite care for the weekend.

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