How to Get Sponsors with Agnes Kozera

In this bonus episode, Agnes Kozera (co-founder of FameBit and Podcorn) shares her top tips for how to pitch your podcast to brands and pricing your show.

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Transcript

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Unknown: 0:00

They've done the research on the brand. They're super passionate. It's like an already made ad. So all the brand has to do is like, approve and hire and done. So I think like, the more, you could just be creative and passionate, the more chances you'll have to get hired.

Alban: 0:21

Hey, everybody, today, I'm here with Agnes Kozera. She is the co founder of Podcorn. Podcorn is really the leading influencer marketing platform for podcasters. It's a great way for podcasters to connect with different brands who want to run sponsorships, or just run campaigns on their podcast. And so we're really just excited to have you on. And we've got a lot of questions about sponsorships. So thanks for being here.

Agnes: 0:51

Awesome. Likewise, I'm really excited to be here and chat with you.

Alban: 0:55

So you have a really interesting background, you've actually done something very similar to popcorn, except for a YouTube in the past. And if anyone knows what FameBit is, you're the co founder of FameBit. Yeah, tell us a little bit about your background, and the work you did with FameBit before starting popcorn.

Unknown: 1:12

So that's exactly it prior to popcorn, my co founder and I had founded FameBit, which was a marketplace connecting YouTube stars, to brands for endorsements. And what led me to actually discover FameBit was that I actually, while I was a student, I had founded a subscription commerce company, this was like really early on in the Birchbox days. And as a starving brand with no marketing budget, I saw an opportunity to work with creators, and basically built out a network by myself, because at the time, there was multi channel networks and agencies, working with sort of the biggest celebrities and charging a lot of money to work with creators. So I went directly built out on that work. And then, you know, I saw incredible return on my little startup, and boom, a light bulb sort of went on that, you know, this was a much bigger opportunity, and that there was so many creators that wanted to work with brands, there are so many brands like myself that had no idea how to get in touch with these creators. And before I knew it, there was this whole messy process that I discovered of like, how do you find the creators? How do you contact them? How do you negotiate pricing? And then how do you manage everything and messy spreadsheets. So at that time, you know, youtubers were very much becoming sort of the next generation celebrities. And so FameBit was born. And then we were acquired by Google actually in 2016. So that was an incredible outcome. And we learned a ton, my co founder and I, and then we saw the emergence of podcasting. We saw a lot of YouTubers and other creators moving over from other mediums and starting podcasts and diversifying their content. And we saw you know, that podcasters it's not just content, they're actual influencers. So that's sort of how popcorn came came to me.

Alban: 3:01

Okay, so this isn't in my outline, but I have to ask, so you were very early. I mean, you were really early at spotting how YouTube was about to emerge. And now you've seen something in podcasting as well. Can you talk to us a little bit about what what is it that gave you the idea that YouTube was about to blow up? And what do you see in podcasting, now,

Unknown: 3:25

this was back into the 2013 with FameBit, everybody sort of thought of, of YouTube as a place for cat videos. But I was actually a consumer of YouTube content. YouTube, youtubers actually made me buy a lot of things that worked. And I was really happy. And I looked to them for their expertise and advice. So and they also, you know, I saw that they moved my product, like nothing else. So from there, I saw their influence, I saw the influence that they had with their audiences. And then with podcasting, it was sort of very similar, you know, we, we saw a lot of the same problems emerging that we saw in the early days of video, majority of the ecosystem of podcasters was not monetizing, even though they're incredibly fabulous and have so much influence and so much expertise on very niche topics that convert for brands. And so we wanted to fill that monetization void because so far, the opportunities for brand collaborations with podcasters have been very much sort of the traditional radio ad style mentality. And we wanted to bring native and really show that podcasters are celebrities and you know, I do think we're going to move into this sort of other universe where you're going to see podcasters really treated more as celebrities, whether it's like book deals or shows or like these grand collaborations with brands, I think the space is going to evolve very much sort of like the way YouTube has.

Alban: 4:53

Alright, so I love what you're saying. And I feel like I have a another dozen questions based off of just what you're going with there. One of the things that has always kind of popped up to me is we were used to living in this world with mass marketing, especially with advertising, you know, we just had the Superbowl and Superbowl ads are the way to get in front of millions and millions of people. And what YouTube and the web have allowed us to do is actually connect one to one with people to very small targeted segments and deliver products and things that they would really be interested in. And I love that you saw kind of that same thing happening in YouTube, and now happening again, in podcasting, because what I love about podcasting is it is so focused, you know, the average podcast doesn't get over 100 plays per episode. But what that means is those 100 people are people who are really great fits. And so it opens up this world to a brand connecting exactly to their target audience.

Agnes: 5:57

Absolutely. That's exactly it. And that's what I discovered with FameBit. And that's, you know, what the thesis that proved true to be with popcorn as well is about this the power of the micro influencer, you know, that you don't have to have a million downloads, or million subscribers, whether it's YouTube, you know, or podcasting, to really convert for brands, it's really about the right fit for the right brand. And I saw that as a small brand. You know, I was working with creators who had sometimes you know, 1000 subscribers or 5000 subscribers, and it's about the fact that they're loyal, it doesn't matter. Like they're really trusting that creator, for whatever it is that whatever information it is that they're delivering, whether it's, you know, entertainment, or information or education. So that's, that's really powerful. And you nailed it, it's really about finding the right fit the right fit of the brand. And, and that's where we see the magic happen. And you know, you know, we tell brands that bit who want a lot of impressions, that it's kind of like putting all your eggs in one basket on a big creator, it could be a hit, but it could be a huge mess. Whereas like, if you work with 20, smaller creators, somebody is going to convert, and they're going to convert really well. And oftentimes, it's sometimes the smallest creator, that ends up converting the most just because of the fit and their passion for the brand. I actually think like within podcasting, compared to YouTube, it's an easier sell, because you have so much more real estate to work with, and so much more time to give to a brand or to do something authentic that you don't have in a video, the turnaround times are so much faster. So brands don't have to wait a long time before they get something out. So I think from just even those two perspectives, it makes it a lot easier for podcasters to to sell even when they're small, because they could be like, you know, I'm giving you 10 minutes of my airtime. And that's, that's pretty powerful.

Alban: 7:57

Whenever I've been on the buying end of sponsorships, and I actually, before YouTube changed the model, I actually used FameBit. And it worked super well for us. So I can kind of validate how well that worked. When I've ever been on the other side. I feel like a lot of times people show you the biggest name creators. And so I see like, I see big soccer players, or I see Kim Kardashian or Justin Bieber, they're all at the top. And what's funny is, it's always like you see them and you're like, oh, what could they do for my brand? But you could totally Miss like, it's not about impressions, it's impressions, but it's also how loyal and trusting is their audience? And then do they trust them for things in this area? If somebody wants fashion advice, like maybe Justin Bieber is a good person for them to get fashion advice from but he's not a person who's going to tell you maybe the next podcast to listen to or what camera to buy if you're trying to do a live stream setup. And so it's always about kind of finding the right fit where someone has a good audience but the audience cares about them and they really care that you can deliver insight into a particular product or service. Yeah, that's

Unknown: 9:14

that's exactly uh, you know, and I think to that same on that same sort of wavelength it also goes to the same for the brands right like not every brand can afford to work with the biggest stars but they have this misconception that you know, I need to work with a Kim Kardashian or a Joe Rogan in order to move my product but that doesn't move product if it's not the right fit for the industry if they're not experts or you know regarded within the space there may or may not move product and also the listenership even though it's large, they might not be interested in that. Whereas like if it's really targeted, like we had one of our Brand Partners lumen which is a startup and they worked with micro influencers within the health and wellness space because Their devices helps you hack your metabolism. So they worked with smaller creators who are reorders experts, they did very native stuff like interview segments and product overviews that sort of, you know, help explain to the listeners the value of the product to really like be more journalistic, more inquisitive. And, and they were able to see a 300% return. And that's just from micro creators. So that that goes to show to brands as well. And I think it's, it's a huge education component. And this is why I'm so excited that we have that opportunity to show brands the value of that

Alban: 10:37

we're not just talking about ads, we're actually going much more in depth. And so I think kind of brings us back to this question of what's the difference between a sponsorship and just running an advertisement, we can talk about, like, how those are actually different what you create, but also, how does that feel different to the audience that's consuming this content,

Unknown: 10:59

night and day absolutely a lot more engaging. You know, there's so many studies already, that have come out that show that even host read ads not even like real true native integrations convert so much better for brands, there's so much less disruptive for listeners, because they're part of the content, they're, you know, you're hearing your favorite creator, talk about something. It's not like a commercial break. And I think that's, that's like a really, really huge distinction right there.

Alban: 11:26

I love that you use the word commercial, because we often talk about dynamic ad insertion, which is not something that popcorn is doing, which is just dropping an ad into the middle of a podcast episode. And it's being sold right now is this is going to be the solution for podcast monetization. But what it's actually doing is saying, Hey, why don't we just do something that's been working in radio for 100 and over 100 years, and bring it in to the digital age, when it misses why we like podcasting to begin with podcasting is intimate, we have these deep connections with our audience, our audience could be listening to us for years, 45 minutes a week. So now they've spent more time with the host of a podcast they may have spent with a really good friend. And that relationship matters. And so if all of a sudden you say, oh, let's just drop in a Geico ad, well, that's not going to convert close to as well as if the host, even if the host reads the same Geico ad. It's such a different experience.

Unknown: 12:31

Yeah, absolutely. There's a huge separation between the creator and the brand, and there's no connection. So the authenticity is completely not there. You know, when it comes to traditional ads versus content, that's we've done by the Creator. And also another difference with sponsorships and traditional ads is that creators with sponsorships actually get to get the product from the brand, they get to try it out. They so you're not only getting free product, but you're getting to test it out, you're getting to add that authenticity, to the ad. And again, it's not the brand's voice, it's your voice. And, and the way like we're structured is that we don't ever force creators, you know, to go through with a sponsorship, if they decide to get the product, and they don't like it. But there is that ability to test there. And to again, like be more journalistic about what you're promoting. And also, you know, be the sort of tester or for your listeners about things in your space, whether it's health and wellness, whether it's beauty, whether it's gaming, to sort of be the one to test it out for them and be honest brands want honesty, I think, you know, we've come so far with influencer marketing from when we started, wherever, where brands really wanted something polished, they understand now the value of honesty and the value of like being really raw. And brands are also looking for podcasters. Now to to really be part of the product development process. So like a lot of brands are working with podcasters, even before they launch. So that's that's also an opportunity to help develop the product with the brands. And through that. Another distinction, I think that you don't get with traditional ads is that you you get to establish these brand relationships that can lead to that can open doors to a whole other world, you know whether it is sort of a long brand ambassadorship or collaboration on like a product line, things like that.

Alban: 14:30

So when we're talking about authenticity in reading these ads, some of the podcasters that come to mind are Bill Burr like notoriously just rips his podcast ads apart. But what happens is it's so funny that you listen to it. There used to be this trick back in TV man, this has got to be now like almost 20 years ago. I remember waiting last was on TV, that they would actually work some ads in the middle of the commercial break. They'll look like they were from the TV show, to try to get you to stop. And just be careful that you didn't fast forward. And he actually paid attention. And it's almost like podcasting is doing that again, because when you're listening to Bill Burr podcast, and you kind of want him to be funny, and then he goes into an ad, if he were just to sing the praises of the product, it feels like an ad. But then if he rips them, if they say something Goofy, or they use kind of marketing speak, then you're laughing along with him. And you almost kind of think the brain can take their lumps, you know, they they're not afraid of someone saying something goofy battle. So you actually build brand affinity. When someone's getting kind of dig that a little bit.

Unknown: 15:44

I think there's also this thing that a lot of brands have that it's either native or either dynamic, I think there's also a space where you can take these awesome, like creator made, you know, ads that are very native, and you can repurpose them as dynamic. So it's now again, like the creators voice, even if it's on another creators podcast, it's very native to the medium and it doesn't feel so polished and inauthentic. And like a radio style commercial. So I think there's also like evolution of word dynamic ads can go and how native can can help actually brands with the authenticity and their dynamic approach as well.

Alban: 16:27

No, that's super interesting. Yeah, I'd never thought of it that way. You could see a future where a company was, you know, putting out some copy and some ideas and lots of podcasters were recording that real ads, and then adding them into their show. But you're now saying those could be cross promoted into other podcasts that may be a great fit. For the similar audience?

Unknown: 16:53

Absolutely. You know, if you're working with 30 podcasters, the the power of native is that you get 30 different ads, 30 different voices, you get to test different verticals, you get to test different creative, and then you can pick five of the best ones and cut them down or, you know, and do different fun things with them, obviously, with the permission of the Creator. But I think, you know, creators are willing to do that because they are the creative like a lot of times I find like, what creators come up with and like, this is why like, we structure popcorn so that creators can pitch themselves and they can pitch creative ideas, because their ideas are better than some of the you know, most expensive studios and creative ad agencies because they know their listenership they have an expertise in the topic area. So I think I think there's an opportunity for that. Absolutely.

Alban: 17:47

If there's somebody right now, on this podcast, who's watching this, and they want to know, how do I pitch a brand, let's say they found a brand themselves, or they logged into pod corn, and they actually found a company that they really want to work with, they have their target? What should they do? Are there any best practices for pitching a brand?

Unknown: 18:06

Well, I think first and foremost, you need to focus on choosing the right brands. And it goes back to brand fit, ensuring that you know you're pitching something that you yourself genuinely feel like you want to promote, because your listeners are gonna see through that, if it's, you know, just a monetization exchange. So if make sure that it's the right fit for your industry for your space, and sometimes it doesn't have to be an exact fit. Like you don't have to be a food related podcast to promote chips, you know, that you love yourself and that you really like. So it's, I think there's a mix of like passion, and actually like niche expertise, and also like what your listeners like. So think about that. Sometimes I think it's, you know, it's good for podcasters to have these conversations, whether it's on other mediums or some how engaged their listeners and what they want to hear or what they want advice on. Because that's stuff you can go back to the brand and say, you know, I'm getting my listeners asked about my skincare routine. So this might actually like be really relevant. And I think like your product would be a good fit for that. So just really going that extra mile to figuring out if if it's the right brand fit. Also, again, like doing your homework on the brand, and not doing cookie cutter like pasted proposals, and ensuring like that you understand their value and their brand proposition. And sometimes even then you're in your proposal asking the right questions. You know, are you looking for brand awareness? Are you looking to drive sales or get people to a website? Or are you looking for followers to your social, and I think I'm just going the extra mile to ask the questions puts the podcaster in expert position. I mean podcast advertising is fairly new, especially like the native components. So a lot of brands are doing it for the first time. So they're they're looking to podcasters to be the experts.

Alban: 20:33

One of the things that I see every once while I'll have a podcaster, or a YouTube channel or some kind of influencer, reach out to me and say, I'd like to do a sponsorship with Buzzsprout. One of the things that's kind of a clear giveaway to me that it's not a good idea is when the main thing they're providing is, I have 1.5 million subs on YouTube. But they don't talk about what the channel is about. They don't have a podcast. And so I know, you probably can do a really good job selling some stuff. But I didn't see anything in the pitch that told me why you reached out to me beyond the thought that I have. I have money. You know, what, what things can people tell a brand? To let the brand know, I understand you. And I know your product well enough that I will be a good spokesperson for your product?

Unknown: 21:29

Yeah, that's a great question. I think, you know, a lot of podcasters think that, you know, they know their podcast really well. So they don't really need to describe it, they talk about them, they make it about them. They don't necessarily make it about their show and their audience. And I think that's where there's an opportunity, because a brand's not going to listen to every episode you might have. But there might be a fit, it might not be super obvious. Like for instance, you might be a mom who has a parenting podcast, but you also love fitness and healthy eating. So there's like a whole world of sponsorships and health. That might make sense. But like, if the title of your podcast is something to do with parenting, a brand might just overlook it, and they might miss it. So I think like spelling, the connection out is super important. For instance, like if you have majority of a female audience, and this is a product that targets females, and even if it's not related to like your topics, not related to the industry, talk about that, because a lot of brands are looking to target a specific audience. So if you know you're it's female, let them know if you know it's a mix, then then let them know that just letting them know why you think it's a good fit. That goes a long way. Because you have thought about your episodes, way more than anyone else you might know like your upcoming guests. Like, even if you have a related guest within the industry that might be really cool and interesting to the brand like an expert in their field. That may be an interesting approach as well.

Alban: 22:55

I think that's very interesting. I think that's a really good way of approaching it. One of the things that I know people get hung up on is if they don't hear something back from the brand. So maybe they make a proposal. And it was kind of nerve wracking, and they'd never heard back should they follow up? What do you think the right etiquette is there? Well, I

Unknown: 23:18

can speak to kind of like the way it works at pod corn, you know, um, yeah, creators sometimes don't hear back. The thing is that brands get a ton of proposals, it takes them time. So it's obviously patience for them to to review sunburns. also hire creators in batches when they get a lot of proposals. So just because you don't hear back initially doesn't mean that you will never get hired some things you might get hired in 30 days. So patience is key. I think you know, sometimes going back and like re editing your proposal or, and adding something new could be helpful. But if you're going to brands directly, yeah, I mean, follow up. I think persistence and passion is key. I think, you know, if the brand you hear back that they say no, then that's one thing. I'd love, obviously like for creators to ask like, why, like, what, what do you think like would be the right fit? Just to know for for other sponsors? But yeah, persistence is is persistence and passion. Like, I mean, even I remember like, for my brand, when I hired creators, a lot of times, it was because they said they were inspired by my founding story, you know what I mean? Or they related to me, in some way, or they saw this month box, and they were like, Wow, those products are really cool. I would love to run a giveaway for my listeners. And so there are different ways that I think creators can approach it to. So I think again, like thinking about the brand's bottom line, like at the end of the day, brands are doing this for a reason they want to move product. So just show them right off the bat that you are thinking about that. And I think that goes a long way and standing out at the outset.

Alban: 25:00

So when someone does say that, you know reaches out the first time or maybe with a follow up in popcorn, you can kind of specify which type of ads you would be interested in or what have sponsorships. You could be talking about just doing pre roll and post roll ads. But you can also do like a interview with the founder. You could be doing a product sponsorship where you actually talk about the product. Can you give us just maybe high level what are some of those things options, and how should you pick which of those is right for your podcast?

Agnes: 25:33

Yeah, so obviously, there's the host read ads, everyone knows of the pre mid, and post roll, I kind of think of them more as like a shout out to the brand, because it's like, generally 15 to 30 seconds in length. And you know, a lot of brands, what's interesting is a lot of brands come to podcasting, wanting the middle spot. But I think like the pre roll will actually be like, we found that the pre roll converts better for brands, then the mid roll spot, in test that we ran with brands. So I think that's a very interesting finding. And I think it's also because the preroll doesn't have to relate so much directly to the episode, it could be like part of your introduction, you know, whether you're talking about, like, things you discovered recently, or products you're loving, or like things you want to talk about, and like, just make it really natural that you can do in an intro. Whereas like a mineral only works, I think, if it's really well integrated, otherwise, it's just like, again, a commercial break, and it feels disassociated. So if you're talking about something that relates to what you're going to be promoting, then absolutely a mineral spot, make sense. But I think from those two, I think approval goes goes better. And it's also like a frequency thing, if you're going to do host read ads, you can't just do one, you can't get a brand, just one time shadow and expect that like, you know, it's gonna they're gonna hire you again. And it's all amazing. It's up to creators to convince brands like, No, we need to do this, like at least three to six times for this to work. And again, like that's more monetization to the Creator. And it's just like, take a chance because it's all about like repetition. And our listeners really hearing it

Alban: 27:18

the first time that was ever kind of driven home for me was this is it a different company, but we are trying mailers in the mail, we were reaching out to prospective companies. And we were telling him about our product. And we never saw any return on it. And I think that's because we did it one time. And then I realized, every week or every two weeks, I was getting a mailer from a dentist. And then I knew I was going to switch dentists. And then oh, I get that mailer from the one place all the time. And I think it must be right around the street. So I looked it up. And then it clicked in my mind, I was like, they've been sending these every month for six months straight. And I built, it's not really an affinity, but it was definitely an awareness of them. And they seemed like good people. And it seemed like they had good rates. And then when I was in the market, and I was looking for a new dentist, then I went, Oh, I know who to go to, we always want this direct action marketing where we say, come buy this product. And then we want to measure it right then how many people came in bought the product. And so we know whether or not we're profitable. But sometimes it does take three 610 times of interacting with somebody before they feel comfortable enough with your brand. And maybe you catch them at the right moment when they are in the market to make a purchase.

Unknown: 28:42

Yeah, I couldn't agree more repetition is key. And also like you could do different ads and test, you know different things that you say about the brand. And you can also engage your listeners like it's also a really authentic way where you could use the first author and add to announce that you're trying something out, like oh, you just got this product from the brand, you're going to test it out. And then you know, the second or third one can be like about your experience of it and actual like feedback and testimonials of, of how it's working for you. So there's there's different creative ways of absolutely doing it. But post read ads can be can be very native and can be integrated very well and and feel very different than the scripted stuff a lot of friends want to do.

Alban: 29:28

So someone's ready. They've made their pitch, they've connected with a brand that they want to work with one big hang up for a lot of podcasters is they the beginning, they just have no idea what to charge. Should they charge based on the number of people listening to the podcast? Should they try to come up with some sort of value pricing based on the relationship they have? They don't know the answer to that. And they also don't know what are reasonable rates to begin with. Can you give us an idea of how to price ads and sponsorships

Unknown: 30:01

so it also like depends on like the how native this stuff is that you're doing when you're doing the host read stuff, what we tend to see podcasters get hired for on the platform. And again, like you could charge whatever it is that you want, like on popcorn, we let creators set their own pricing. We really wanted to open up the marketplace because you know to someone $100 might be a value for that particular sponsorship. Someone might not want to do anything for less than 1000 And like, obviously, it's like very individual. But as far as like what we see creators get hired for, for hosted ads, whether it's like pre roll or mid roll, we see a range between 15 to $30. CPM is what they base their fee on. So it is, in that sense sort of based off of their, their downloads. But when you're doing stuff that's more native, like an interview, or a product overview, or having a guest, that's really, you know, maybe perhaps like you're not an expert in the brands field, but your guest is an expert, and they're a big influencer. So like, that puts a premium on on your fee. So for that, when things are more integrated, and a little bit more longer form, we see creators take anywhere between 25 to $50. CPM, or, you know, if you're smaller and you're under 1000 downloads, then I really recommend working off of like a flat rate. So just decide like maybe, you know, for$100, you'll do the interview, and like you charge more on the creative and your expertise in the field. And sort of justify it that way. Or, or perhaps you could charge a bigger fee and just sort of do a package of like, Oh, I'm going to give you five hosts read ads one interview, and just figure out what what a flat rate fee might be for that for the content.

Alban: 31:54

One of the things we've added recently to Buzzsprout is the ability to do dynamic ads, or dynamic content, where you could put an ad as a pre roll or post roll into the episode. And it's only there until you remove it, you can later on remove the episode without re uploading new episodes. Do you think that's a better tactic than kind of baking the ad into the episode? Which, which way? Would you recommend advertisers and podcasters to go?

Unknown: 32:21

Yeah, I mean, those are two different ways of monetizing, but I think like the problem with the traditional ads, and just monetizing based on impressions is that it benefits the top of the funnel creators, like the biggest creators, whereas the smaller creators ended up making pennies for listener hours. So I think it benefits them more to sort of charge a flat rate for the content creation, I mean, at the end of the day, like doing an interview with a brand takes a lot of work, they get a lot of airtime, they get a lot of promotion, or you know, so I think native in that sense, allows creators to charge a lot more because they're charging based on their influence and their expertise in that topic. And all these other factors that don't get considered in dynamic ads. I think like, it's great to have both options. And if creators can monetize both ways with relevant ads, then that's great. But I think native also just for your listeners is a lot like we said is a lot more engaging. So it's it's just a great way to to earn more money and also really be an influencer within your area.

Alban: 33:37

Well, this is all incredibly interesting. And I feel like I've learned a lot, there's a lot of points that you've made, I'd never made the connection, for instance, that why mid roll ads may not convert as well, because they don't feel like they fit into the content as well as maybe pre roll that doesn't have to just talking about the importance of really finding the right connection between the brand and the podcast, and the audience that they have.

Unknown: 34:09

And the content really. And I think like to your point about like whether dynamic is better or native, I think it comes to the fit, right? Like if the native ad is integrated into the episode, and it makes sense. And it's relates to what your podcast is what your passion is, and it doesn't feel fake, and it lives forever. Like That is amazing. It forever fits. But if it's inauthentic and you're just pushing something to to earn some money, then then that is never a good idea no matter what it is.

Alban: 34:41

Well, is there any question that I've missed anything that we should be asking about podcast ads that you would you know, or anything that you'd like to share?

Unknown: 34:50

I think just be creative. You know, don't be afraid to think outside of the box, and lead with the creative not with like your resume and your profile. Because I think like brands are hiring you for content. They're hiring you because they want to reach your audience. So I think like sharing as much as you can about that sharing, whether it's demographics or whether like what your episodes are about or like what episode you're thinking you might put the brands and just really thinking through that. I think a lot of creators that also get hired on popcorn are really creative, and they already like pre create the app for the brand. So they do like an audio proposal and they'll Literally, like create the, the integration for them. And so you could see like, one, they've done the research on the brand. They're super passionate. It's like an already made ad. So all the brand has to do is like, approve and hire and done. So so I think like, the more, you could just be creative and passionate, the more chances you'll have to get hired.

Alban: 35:51

Awesome. Well, I really love that point, maybe pre created, especially if you already know the brand. If it's something unique you use, you've done your research, yeah, maybe just go ahead and record it. Because I know on the brand side, man is easy when somebody shows up and says, here's what I'm going to do. And all I am looking for is for you to just press buy, and then it's going to run and you're not gonna have to engage with me a dozen times to get the copy right? Here it is, it is so nice to be able just to do that, because everybody's busy. Everyone's got a lot going on. And it was a podcast, or if you can make it easy on the brand. Well, they're gonna make it a lot. It makes it easy for them to say yes. And pull the trigger and do the sponsorship.

Unknown: 36:38

Absolutely. I think also going back to the monetization question, if you know, if you're smaller, and you have a presence on other social media platforms, whether it's instagram or Tiktok, or, or YouTube leverage that, you know, like brands love the extra social exposure, but you can also charge for those followers. And if you even you know, also like looking at the demographic of your Instagram, or like your Facebook group or wherever else helps give the brand a more holistic view of your entire profile as an influencer. And where you are influential and then can you know, it can let you monetize a lot more than than just your audio. So taking that into consideration and including that as well, I think also is really great.

Alban: 37:27

I just thank you so much for being here with us and sharing everything that you've learned with really influencer marketing from fat co founding FameBit working with Google, and now with popcorn. If people want to learn more about you and about popcorn, where should they go?

Unknown: 37:46

It should just go to popcorn calm. I hope creators honestly sign up they have nothing to lose and just put themselves out there you're never too small to to start collaborating and creating and creating great content for brands.