Buzzcast
Buzzcast is a roundtable discussion about podcasting from the people at Buzzsprout. We'll cover current events and news, podcast strategy, tools we are using, and dip into the Customer Support mailbag to test our podcasting knowledge. If you want to stay up-to-date on what's working in podcasting, Buzzcast is the show for you.
Buzzcast
20 Most Influential Podcasts According to Apple
Apple celebrates 20 years of podcasting with a list of 20 influential shows that shaped the medium across four eras, highlighting podcasts that pushed boundaries and set standards for creativity and storytelling.
Check out 20 Podcasts We Love by Apple Podcasts, and find out why they made the list!
• 2005-2010 pioneering era includes 99% Invisible, This American Life, and Love + Radio
• 2011-2015 podcasting boom features Serial, Song Exploder, Mystery Show and Acquired
• 2016-2020 includes mainstream hits like The Daily and Call Her Daddy
• 2021-2025 showcases expert-led content like Huberman Lab and narrative journalism like Sweet Bobby
Text us your tips for finding guests and making sure they're a good fit for your podcast, and we'll share them on the next episode!
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Thanks for listening and Keep Podcasting!
Well, Jordan, I'm glad you're back. I'm glad you had fun on your trip.
Jordan:Yeah, I had so much fun.
Kevin:But you can never do that again.
Jordan:Yeah, you had a late night on Thursday.
Kevin:I did. I thought for sure I had Thursday carved out to edit Buzzcast and I thought certainly I can get this done in a day. And then, you know, I kind of dillied a little bit in the morning. I opened up the recording, I did a few rough edits, I got through the first five minutes or whatever, and I'm like, oh, it's going fine, hop into some other stuff. And I came back to it after lunch and then it was probably like two o'clock, I don't know roughly sometime around, when I pinged Alban and I was like nine minutes in and we had two hours of recording material and I was like nine minutes in. I was like Alban, this is taking forever. I'm in trouble.
Jordan:Yeah.
Kevin:And I think we had something to do that evening. So I had to stop at like six o'clock or seven o'clock and go do whatever we did that night, and then I had to come back and it was like a midnight deal.
Jordan:Oh my gosh.
Kevin:I'm glad we don't publish at midnight anymore. I wouldn't miss the deadline, but I knew I had till 8am, so caffeine and hours were on my side.
Jordan:Yeah, that's the thing. Whenever people say like, okay, like when estimating how much time it takes to edit something, it's usually like three times the amount of whatever you recorded, and I think that that's true. If you're not like a very detail oriented person, like if you're just like hacking, that sucker it's. Yeah, you could probably get it in like a two hour episode in six hours, but if you take any pride in your work, it's going to be like two days. Yeah, I don't know what it is, it's so weird.
Kevin:And I was like surely I used to be faster at this, but I haven't done it in such a long time. I had to relearn, like when I was starting I was. I started the first 20 minutes or so.
Kevin:I was just like watching youtube keyboard shortcuts and stuff, because I'm like got a full ed to do. I need to remember how to do this thing. Oh yeah, what software did you use? Hindenburg, which I still love, but I forgot. I knew how to like cut, but I didn't know how to like cut and collapse, like get the rest of the recordings to come down. And I'm pretty sure I was still doing it the wrong way, because I figured out a way to make it work and and I'm like I'm just going to do this- yeah.
Kevin:It was a little bit clunky, like I had to drag the position thing through all the different tracks and then I did a cut. I think there's a way that you can just like hit it on one track and cut, and then the other tracks still follow suit. Anyway, I was terrible. I'm glad you're back and I do like editing. I do, I find it enjoyable.
Jordan:Yeah, it can be.
Alban:Do you know how financial services companies will force everyone to take a week vacation, so that's how they can discover fraud. Is you're out of your job? Someone else has to do your job for at least a week, so they can tell there's something happening.
Alban:The sabbaticals are our way of appreciating the work everyone else does, because I never felt anything. We would have an outline and we'd go through, we go. All right, we didn't get that story, toss it. And sometimes I'd see on Jordan's face a little bit of like oh, even if it was a story you didn't like, I still saw it. And then I had mine, I had the story I didn't care about. But we go, we don't have time for that. And I went oh, I felt like man, I prepped this story that I didn't even want to talk about, it's still, you felt. I felt a little bit like oh, man, we dropped that. And then we cut a story in the edit which was the weakest one and I went oh man, I was like it's good to feel that experience a little bit for you.
Jordan:And I think it was nice for Kevin to feel the other side, the edit side, of what you work on. Well, thanks you guys. I really appreciate you taking over so I can go get on some roller coasters and have a great week.
Alban:Well, we're glad to have you back. Two weeks ago, we kind of previewed this. We talked about how Apple added podcast iTunes 20 years ago, and then Apple just put out this really cool press release where they went through and they said, ok, 20 years, we're picking 20 podcasts that are 20 of our favorite shows that help exemplify what's best about podcasting, and it's a it's a cool list.
Jordan:Yeah, I love what they said at the beginning of this list because this was put together by the Apple Podcast Editorial team, so obviously they have seen through the years, all the podcasts that are, you know, top of the charts making big moves. And they said this list is a love letter to the podcast that left a lasting impact on us and the ones we continue to recommend again and again. They are shows with hosts that feel like friends and shows that make us press play immediately on the latest episode to hear what happens next. These shows have measurably improved our lives and helped define this medium we know and love. I thought that was great.
Jordan:So, all the podcasts that they chose it's 20 podcasts for 20 years that you know changed the medium in some format. They were chosen for pushing boundaries, shaping genres or setting standard for creativity and storytelling, and they divide the list into four five-year eras, between 2005 and 2025, as a snapshot of podcasting's evolution. I just thought everything that they did with this list is so cool. It was very thought out, it was very intentional. It was really fun to go back and see what podcasts that I knew that made the list and the ones that I was like I've never heard of that.
Alban:Yeah, there are quite a few I didn't know about.
Jordan:Yeah.
Alban:I think starting these lists with this is our love letter to these shows, is the way that these lists should be written, because the first thing I see is I go, oh, but what about this show, what about that show? My list would be different.
Jordan:Yeah.
Alban:And the whole point of having a perspective is, of course. Of course, the list will be different. This is the shows we love, but lots of good shows Are we going to go through and talk about these.
Jordan:I would love to, and I think at the end it'd be kind of cool to see what ones you think should have made the list, because I also have a couple that was like man, I was really surprised that wasn't on the list. But yeah, let's kick it off with 2005 to 2010. So these are like the pioneering years, these are the first years. This is like the public radio style. So, first off, they have love and radio with off-kilter episodes that get under your skin in the best way. This american life no surprise there, right, uh, the show that invented a format and then perfected it. And then they also have 99% invisible.
Kevin:All right, my pick out of this section is 99% invisible. That is a show that I follow. This is an interesting podcast for me and I'm wondering if you guys view this the same way that either one of you listen to the show. Yes.
Alban:I listened to every episode for many years and then have dropped off in the last few that's where I was.
Kevin:I used to listen to every single one and now I really kind of only listen on road trips, when I get through sort of like topical stuff like what's going on today. That's sort of what carries me week to week in my podcast listening and 99% invisible. It just feels like there's always something good there. I know that I can always, if I get through all the podcasting news stuff and the current events stuff and the who was everybody talking about, who was on Joe Rogan or Human Lab or whatever, and I get through all that stuff and then something else to listen to. Like 99% Invisible is a show that I can continue to go back to and just scroll through some episode titles and be like that sounds interesting and it never disappoints.
Jordan:That's exactly where it sits. For me, that's my relationship with that podcast is I've been through everything. I have nothing less to oh wait, 99% invisible. I'm going to just find something, and it's always a good time.
Kevin:It's always like why do I not listen to this more every time, I feel like if you listen to this consistently and I probably should do it more you're probably going to be the most interesting person at the party always, because it's just chock full of like all these little details and things that you know, you don't know. You never walk away from listening to an episode 99% invisible, without some interesting facts that you can't wait to share. You can't wait to drop it at the next social event you're at. Yeah.
Alban:I feel that way about this American life. This American life was the first podcast I ever listened to at least I can remember and the combination of like there's real journalism, but then there's also like memoir, and then there's like cultural commentary and then there'll be like a poem, and I just loved like that. They have a theme and it's sometimes a very loose theme and they're kind of crafting a few stories together and then, like David Sedaris comes on at the end and reads a short story, and I loved it. I mean, I remember downloading like the this American Life app so that I could get all the back catalog and listen to it, and it was another one that I was wondering if there was too much. That was good.
Alban:I know that seems like such a strange thing to say, but same with 99% Invisible. You like you get into the same rhythm and there's just like you look, at some point there's like nine episodes in the back that I've already downloaded and I'm like I'm going to take a little bit of a break and I've noticed I haven't come back, but these were like the 99% Invisible and this American Life are two of my very favorite shows, the very beginning of me listening to podcasts.
Jordan:Yeah, that's what I loved about reply. All was that it was all just banger after banger, but it would have come out once every like month or three months, and so it was just like this treat that you got every now and then, and so it was like really easy to keep up with it, because you didn't have to listen every single week.
Alban:Yeah, what a strange experience, though, that we talk about the value of having a weekly show and then there are some it's really nice to be like yeah, there's eight episodes a year, but every one of them is like awesome and you get so excited for it. Maybe it's just that the quality has to be so so much higher when you have a show like that.
Jordan:Yeah, all right, let's move into the next era, 2011 to 2015. So this is like the podcasting boom and the shows in this list are like experimental, they're bingeable. So this is when people started like discovering that little purple app on their phone and listening to things like Serial. So the first one is the Truth, and this is modern short stories that venture into the uncanny valley. The Read the original hang with friends, culture, conversation, and it's interesting because the read they said that we're so accustomed now to shows with hot takes and a personal tone that's easy to forget how the read did it first and continues to do it so incredibly well. So that's why that one made it on the list. Then we have, of course, song exploder fall in love with your favorite songs all over Serial, a show that changed everything for podcasting Mystery Show, low Stakes Mysteries with Emotionally High Stakes Investigations and, of course, acquired world's biggest companies enthusiastically unpacked. I was not surprised to see Song Exploder Serial and Acquired on this.
Kevin:Yeah, looking at this list reminds me like 2011 to 2015,. It was sort of like podcasting is becoming a thing Now. Obviously, the shows that we just talked about that came before this, but this is, I mean, serial sort of introduced podcasting to so many people and it's this little four year period where all these amazing shows and new formats and all this type of stuff launched. I can't even believe the depth of content Just take like Sonic Splitter, for example, like their back catalog is so massive and the production quality is so high and the amount of energy that must just go into arranging recording sessions with all these high profile, very famous, very busy people. Oftentimes they bring a lot of materials into these podcast episodes. So you get like early recordings or you get like studio sessions and stuff. Oh my gosh, this is just a great era of podcasting in general.
Jordan:Oh yeah.
Alban:Song Exploder, one of my favorite podcasts of all time.
Jordan:Really.
Alban:So many times I would listen to a podcast and I'm going through the episode and I'm like this song, like I know this song and I don't like it. And then, as I hear the story and the songwriting and then what's happening with, like the drumbeat and how it changes, and then they're like, oh, and then we change keys and then like, as I learned about the song and there was so much more happening, and then they always play the song at the end. I'd never have left one of those episodes and not been like this is a song that I like now and maybe it's just that there's so much more meaning in the song after I've heard it. And I've probably shared that podcast more than any other, because if I listened to a song, somebody likes that music and I learned more about the song. I'm like, oh, have you seen this? Like this is your favorite band and this is one of their well-known songs. But I never knew this backstory and so I shared it all the time. One of the things I love, if you ever go back to the very beginning.
Alban:Richie K Sherway is in the podcast. He is asking questions and they answer, but then he said he was inspired by I think it was inside the actor's studio where they edited out all the questions and it's like episode two the format changes where all of the questions have been edited out and so it's almost like the artist is just telling the story and they explain the melody and then you hear the melody and they explain some lyrics. Know the melody? And then you hear the melody and they explain some lyrics and then just you hear that part of the lyrics. It's just such a well done show I need to go back and start listening a lot more.
Alban:Mystery Show is another show that stands out here, one of the only podcasts, I think, that went like so deep into quality that it ended up kind of killing the show. That went like so deep into quality that it ended up kind of killing the show. Pretty much everyone who I think has listened to it likes the episodes. But then shortly after Gimlet brought it in or after Gimlet was sold to Spotify, it was canceled and they were just like you know the amount of effort that was going in like some of these episodes had hundreds of hours of research and interviews to produce a single episode, while amazing for all of us who get to listen and we're like oh, there's a ton of effort that went in here. It sounded like that was kind of. The downfall in the end was how much was going into each of these episodes?
Jordan:Yeah, that was one I hadn't heard of, which I was really surprised, because I love pretty much all of Gimlet's shows, and so that's on my list now of things I need to binge.
Kevin:Yeah, did you guys notice that the Apple podcast editorial team did something really nice? Here is they didn't just recognize these shows, they also said you can find some of their favorite episodes. So it's kind of like a start here list if you've never heard the show.
Jordan:Yeah.
Kevin:And so I'm super excited for the next road trip I have, because some of these shows, like you said, I haven't heard of them. I don't know how these shows are so big and I've been in podcasting for so long I've missed some of these shows. But you also have great jumping off points.
Jordan:Yeah, that was something I was really excited about too, cause we talk about this all the time with pod role. When someone you know curates something and they recommend this is a specific episode that you'll really enjoy, that this is a specific show that you really enjoy, you go all right, I'm going to trust you on that. I'm going to listen to that one.
Kevin:Yeah, and if it's a serial show, then fine, start at the beginning. But for episodic shows, where do you go? Just the latest or what you kind of want to start with? I don't know. It's like if you're introducing someone to a band, you don't just say, just go listen to this band randomly, you say start with this song and then go to this song and then from there you'll be hooked and you can go discover more stuff from there.
Alban:And there's different content that works for people who've listened to a podcast or listened to an artist for a long period and that you like. You're like, you know the themes, you know the jokes. It's very accessible to you now. But for somebody who's brand new, there's a different type of thing you'll recommend. So I like that they've done that here, acquired as well Lots of good episodes in there. That's another one that I've not even gotten close to listening to every episode, but I remember listening to quite a few early on, like I remember the Google maps. One was like a four hour Google maps history and I remember just being like how did they do this much research and learn everything about, like the team of three people that did Google Maps like years before they were acquired? Just a really cool show that also is kind of broken out into the mainstream so much that they did that one episode where they had, like they sold out an entire theater.
Kevin:Yeah, I'm looking at the acquired list right now and one of the episodes that they recommend you start with is the Rolex one and I was like, oh, Rolex, that'd be interesting. It's five hours, which is for me, at two X it's only two and a half hours, but I got to clear off two and a half hours to listen to the Rolex episode.
Jordan:All right, let's go into 2016 to 2020. So this is like when celebrity podcasts started rising and we have like influencer shows and it starts going mainstream. You know, we have like the COVID podcast boom. First one is Lost Culturistas, which is the culture commentators who have become the culture. The Daily, which is the pioneer of daily news podcasts. Call Her Daddy, which created a new interview standard. I think she kind of like invented the pajama party podcast genre. Moonface, highly personal fiction that helps us understand ourselves more deeply. Dolly Parton's America, how a music icon reflects our culture back to us. And the rest is history. History from hosts that feel like your smartest friends. I have not listened to a single one of these podcasts as in this list and, yes, I tend to agree.
Kevin:This is not my. This is not my era of podcasting. For sure, I'd listened to the daily pretty regularly, but that's it.
Alban:I have not even heard of moon face Every other one I've heard of and yet maybe hadn't listened. Moon face totally new. So I think I want to go find out an episode and listen to it and figure out what this is about. But I did end up researching some of these just to learn Las Culturistas I didn't know much about it and I'm reading it.
Alban:And Bowen, yang edited this podcast on his own using Audacity in the beginning, while applying to be on SNL and doing auditions, I found this story about using Audacity to edit it and I was like, oh, that's so cool that at least feels very relatable for all of the podcasters that we know.
Jordan:Wow, I thought that that podcast came out after he was on SNL, so that's really surprising. Yeah, um, yeah, the daily. I was not surprised to see this one list and they even mentioned that. You know, the daily kind of pioneered how news organizations deliver news. It's not like this rapid fire, like here's all the current events that are happening today, like the daily just focuses on one thing. They're going to deep dive into it. You're gonna understand it and that's it for the day.
Alban:There's something nice about it that feels like we are going to bracket the amount of time that you're going to invest in knowing about this thing and you want to feel like I'm up to date on what's happening in the news and we've seen it in lots of other areas where it's like hey, do you want to keep up with podcasting? Read pod news. You read it. It takes you like six minutes a day and you feel comfortable, like I know what's going on in this industry and the Daily was that for US news, and I feel like you're always are kind of caught up. You're like OK, I know what's going on. I did find this little anecdote when I was reading about some of these Michael Barbaro's line here's what else you need to know today.
Kevin:He just said that in episode two and they're like that's not a really good use it again and it just stuck in there forever. I'm always impressed with the dailies ability to have it seems like they have deep knowledge of topics that just happened yesterday. There's a lot of stuff shaking down, like in the middle East right now. This is a very current event. Trump just announced that he helped negotiate a ceasefire. This was like Tuesday night or something. And then Wednesday's. The daily is like the title of the episode is Will the Ceasefire Hold? Like somehow they went from announcement of ceasefire to fully produced podcast episode you know 20, 30 minute episode within 12 hours and they brought in all this you know back knowledge. So it's like they must have this team that is constantly working on all these current events and then they have this amazing ability to bring it all together quickly in a highly produced podcast episode on very short notice, and I always find that massively impressive.
Alban:And most of the reporters who are doing it are also writing the story that's going to end up on the front page of the New York Times, like the next morning.
Kevin:Yeah, and they're all excellent podcasters too. They've got great voices. They explain things very well. It's very impressive.
Jordan:All right, let's get into the last era. This is the social media crossovers, global storytelling and expert led edutainment. So first up, of course, we have Huberman lab, translating health information for everybody. Suave exploring life after prison with a human story at its heart. Then we have sweet bobby, the show with a twist that made her jaws drop, baby this is kiki palmer candid conversations with an undeniably charismatic host and finally, therapist with jake shane. Advice that only an internet addict could give. Um. Out of this list, I've listened to one podcast and that was Sweet Bobby, and it was a very plot twisty podcast and I see why it's on the list. But the rest of them I haven't listened to.
Alban:It's about a woman who's catfished, right Mm. Hmm, okay, this would be a good one. I didn't know much about it, and then I started reading a little bit.
Jordan:I was like, okay, it I get why people, why this is on the list like the top list for weeks and weeks and weeks this is.
Kevin:This is a great era. I I listened to a lot of huberman lab again this. These are longer, not all of them. What's weird about human lab is that he will drop, you know, two and a half hour episode, a four and a hour episode, and then he'll drop a 37 minute episode and so and I think maybe it's a little bit of a theme in, like some of these shows that we think are most successful, like they don't seem to follow rules. They just kind of do what they do.
Kevin:Most indie podcasters. When you talk to them you're like, oh, what's your show about? What do you do? Do you interview people? Is it just you? And how long your episodes? Like they have good answers for all these things. I feel like if we sit down with some of the people who their shows appear on this list, they're just, you know, some episodes are four hours, some episodes are 30 minutes. Some do you publish regularly Sometimes, yeah, sometimes we try to hit every week or sometimes, like the daily hits daily, of course, but like Human Lab, for example, I don't necessarily know that he publishes every single week, and a lot of these shows seem to break a lot of rules, which I think, as indie podcasters, I hope maybe the takeaway from that is like don't feel the pressure, don't feel constrained that you might not be doing something right. Right, that some of the biggest shows that exist in podcasting don't follow rules or break rules, or they're kind of all over the place.
Jordan:Yeah, the rules are not one size fits all. Just do whatever is going to serve your audience best, going to serve you best as a podcaster, so you don't burn out and you can continue doing what you're passionate about, absolutely.
Alban:All right, so can we go into what we feel like was missed out on this, or just like in our lists what things would be on there that didn't make it here.
Jordan:Absolutely, Alban. Do you want to start it?
Alban:Well, I went and looked. I know why these didn't make it because part of what they want to do is kind of sample some from each year about. You know, they're trying to get them from different eras and all my big podcasts. Most of them came out in like 2008, 2009 period, so I understand why, came out in like 2008, 2009 period. So I understand why. But like no radio lab no hardcore history. No reply. All yeah, WTF with Mark Maron, Freakonomics Radio. I probably would not have this job if it wasn't Freakonomics Radio.
Jordan:Really.
Alban:I'm sure I've told this story before, but between law school and getting my first job as a lawyer, I just need something to do. So I was mowing lawns and I listened to the entire back catalog of Freakonomics radio and there was an episode about quitting something and like not falling prey to the sunk cost fallacy. You have to stick with something because you paid for it. And I remember this distinct thought I know where I was and I was like I'm not the kind of person who'd do that. And then, a year and a half later, I'm like I really do not like being a lawyer. I've got to move. And then I'm like I can't really do it. And then I was like, dude, a year and a half ago, you're mowing lawns, going like of course I would quit.
Alban:Yeah, you've got to do it, but I kept thinking about that episode as I made that, that decision. So Freakonomics Radio maybe Freakonomics Radio is actually top of the list for me.
Jordan:Wow, one of the ones that was on my list was on your list too. That's, of course, reply All. I feel like that was such a huge podcast that really got me into that kind of deep dive on weird stuff genre, if that makes sense. The other two that I was really surprised did not make it on there were Welcome to Night Vale. I feel like Welcome to Night Vale was such an interesting narrative fiction podcast and I mean they're still touring like today Like they've toured everywhere. They came to like Boise. No one comes to Boise and so I know they're just like constantly touring and doing all these live shows and I think it was just like such a huge podcast for the genre. And then my last one that was really surprised was on here was Up and Vanished by Tenderfoot TV.
Alban:Oh yeah.
Jordan:I mean the first season. Like Payne Lindsey, he didn't know anything about like investigative journalism or anything like that, and Up and Vanished was really the podcast where he like took interest in a story and then like did the investigation himself. He's basically like an armchair detective and he's going and talking to people and like making this documentary series and then, based on all this evidence, he like solves the case and then the guy goes to jail, right Like. I just felt like that was such a huge moment in podcasting history.
Alban:Imagine committing a crime and you're like I got away with it. And then someone's like a podcaster and investigates it and you're like and you're busted.
Jordan:Yeah, like some handsome dude with like a microphone just shows up on your doorstep and he's like, hey, you want to talk? And you're like, yeah, sure, man.
Alban:Oh wait, so did the. Did he actually interview the person who did the crime?
Jordan:Oh gosh, it's been years since I listened to it, but I think I remember the guy being on the podcast. Oh yeah. I don't remember exactly.
Alban:Kevin, what's on your list?
Kevin:Okay, I got a lot, so I'll just run through them quickly. First S town. You guys listen to S town.
Jordan:I haven't yet. You've recommended it so many times and I feel like S town.
Alban:I kind of just put it in the cereal bucket. I thought of it as like a cereal episode yeah, oh, that's right.
Jordan:I think I went to listen to it and it was paywalled and I was like nah yeah, I don't know what they've done with that.
Kevin:I listened to it years ago but it's great and I've introduced a lot of people that like get excited about podcasting after listening to s town uh, how I built this. Where's that? How?
Kevin:I built this great show, tons of amazing episodes and yeah, I got left off somehow. Uh, akimbo, smaller show, probably like seth godin show. Yeah, seth godin akimbo is great. Honestly, with barry weiss, great show. And uh, I also think I I would put the tim ferriss show on there, but I don't love every episode. I don't love every episode, but the ones that are great are really great. And then this is just I get it. Apple not wanting to be like this show is probably too controversial for them to put on their list, but it's the biggest podcast in podcasting and has been for many years. The Joe Rogan experience it just got. I see why they didn't want to put it on there but, how do you not Like?
Kevin:it just is the biggest show in podcasting.
Jordan:Yeah, the second that you started talking about that I had this like face palm moment of like, oh my gosh, how did I miss Joe Rogan? Crime junkie. But I don't know. Yeah, I'm sure.
Kevin:Apple just doesn't want the pushback because there's people who just love it and then there's a lot of people who just hate it. It's too controversial for them to add to the list, but at the same time it is the biggest show in podcasting right now and possibly ever.
Alban:All lists, I think, remind you your list should be different. You know, if you just pick the top 20 biggest shows of all time, most of those would not be great picks for any individual person. I got tons of cool recommendations here. I'm going to listen to a few of these shows.
Kevin:Yeah.
Alban:I'd like to hear I mean, this isn't an official sound off question, but, like, what are some of the formative podcasts for our listeners? What do you listen to that didn't make this list or what would be at the top of yours?
Kevin:Yeah, Maybe a way to frame that would be when you bump into somebody and you start talking about podcasting. If you find out that they are looking for their next podcast to start listening to, or they've never listened to a podcast, what do you recommend to them besides your own show?
Jordan:And then for our next episode, be sure to text us your tips for finding guests and making sure that they're a good fit for your podcast, and we'll be sharing those on the next episode. So until next time, keep podcasting.
