2023 Podcast Predictions

In this episode, the hosts share their listening rituals, finally settle which day of the week is best for publishing, and reveal their podcast predictions for 2023.

View this episode's discussion thread on Twitter!

AI VIDEOS FOR SOCIAL
AudioLabs is a service that lets podcasters make videos from audio-only podcasts.

+ FOLLOW ON APPLE PODCASTS
iOS 16.2 update added the word "Follow" to the minimal plus button that comes with a nice animation when clicked.

BUZZSPROUT YEAR-IN-REVIEW EMAIL
Keep an eye out in January for your Buzzsprout podcast review email! This will be a good one!

KEY LISTENING MOMENTS
Audacy recently published "State of Audio: 11 Moments That Matter", which dives into how listeners listen and when they're most open to messaging. It's geared toward advertisers, but there are takeaways that podcasters can use to improve their content, calls-to-action, and ad placement.

BEST DAY TO PUBLISH
Podchaser has created a report that shares the most and least popular days of the week for releasing podcast episodes. The stats were gathered from six months of data from the top 50K podcasts.

2023 PREDICTIONS
Jordan: Rise in podcast & network channels on Roku & Amazon Fire TV
Alban: Going to see a lot of podcasters from major networks & exclusive contracts go independent.
Kevin: Bah humbug. 

Transcript

Jordan: 0:00

We're not, we're not doing like an entire episode. It's like one lousy segment,

Kevin: 0:04

Lousy, lousy. Please make the chapter title for this "one lousy segment".

Jordan: 0:17

So Kevin, you experimented using Buzzcast soundbytes to generate AI TikTok videos. Can you tell us what that was like?

Kevin: 0:25

AudioLabs was featured in Podnews a couple of weeks ago, and the article was talking about how they can take podcast episodes and generate AI videos that you can then use to promote your episodes. So I thought it'd be fun to take the most recent episode of Buzzcast and shoot it over to them and have them create some AI videos for us. So I did it, there's nothing to the process, you give him a link to the latest episode that you want doesn't have to be latest, whatever episode you want. I think I just gave him a link directly to the mp3. And then you check out with a PayPal form and I paid him $100 for three videos. And I think it was about a week later, I got three videos back. Now, I want to give a little disclaimer, because they're they're very nice. They emailed me a couple of times while I was waiting, keeping me updated on the process, and saying that they were just getting an influx of business and so good for them. And so things were taking a little bit longer to run on their side. And then I got the videos back and I emailed him back after I watched the videos. And I said there are some problems. And he said, you know, you can get like one set of revisions for free. If you just want to let us know what you don't like or what needs to be changed, you can do that. And I didn't take him up on that, because I wasn't really doing it. For the purposes of promotion, I just wanted to see the quality of the initial videos. So while the videos that we got back, they did have some problems, like there was an opportunity for them, fix them, but I didn't take them up on that. So they seem to be a reputable company, good people responsive through email and stuff. But I want to see what you guys thought of the three videos that we got back.

Jordan: 1:44

So let me just double check this. They're the ones that selected the audio clips that would be used in the videos?

Kevin: 1:50

Right. I didn't have to do anything, which I really appreciated. Like I thought that was great. It would have been obviously a lot more work if I had to say, like between these two timestamps here the clips that I want, or here's another timestamp in another one. But I didn't have to do anything. So they I guess you use their AI to scan the episode and try to pick out the three most what they thought compelling sections to create these clips from.

Jordan: 2:11

Yeah, I just like, I mean, honestly, for me, I mean, I would prefer to go through and be like, this is the exact section because the parts that they selected are so bland and boring. It's almost like the AI was like, "Oh, you guys talked about AI. I'm an AI, I like AI. And it's so funny, because looking at these videos. First off, it's very funny because Kevin Finn, co founder at Buzzsprout video has a photo of Alban and it's Alban talking.

Kevin: 2:44

Yeah.

Jordan: 2:46

And all these videos just have these generated like videos of like robots and stuff, even though we're not talking about robots.

Alban: 2:54

I like the robot. That was maybe the highlight of for me.

Kevin: 2:59

They were like, they were like uh, video segments from like the I Am Robot movie. And like Westworld and stuff. They're like weird looking robots.

Alban: 3:07

My main question was around whether or not this is like, actually AI. And I don't want to insinuate, I mean, maybe I do. Taking a week to get it turned around seems pretty surprising. If all we're doing is running some model to try to pick out like, oh, you said the word robot. And now we put a picture of a robot and you said this word. And now I have this picture. Obviously, like somebody was probably involved. If it was me talking, it was my face, but said, Kevin, like somebody went and was like, let's find some pictures of these people. Right? Or I would be surprised if that was fully automated. So there's definitely people involved in this process, right?

Kevin: 3:49

I mean, I think it's a good suspicion, the sales pitch says it's all AI generated. So they don't talk about humans being involved. But it does seem a little bit weird that even if you do have you got some press and you have a massive influx of people requesting these videos that it would still take a week, like that's, that's a lot of time, especially because most of these businesses run on some sort of cloud hosting service. So you can like scale up the number of GPUs pretty easily. So you can always throw more compute power at it might cost you a little bit more. But yeah, a week is a long time. Now I will say that when I got the initial email back, and it said that your videos will be ready in about a week, I wrote back and I said, "Hey, we're recording Buzzcast On Friday", this was this was more than two weeks ago that I did this initially. And I said, "Hey, if you can get back to us in the next 48 hours, we'll talk about them on the next episode". And they just said we just cannot do that. There's no way and so there was some incentive on top of just the regular production schedule for them to move a little bit faster and they still couldn't do it. So I don't know. I didn't ask if there's actual humans or if their servers were really just completely overwhelmed, but it is a little suspect.

Alban: 4:45

So not to like step back from this particular AudioLabs. We you know, probably how many did we make few 100 videos for our TikToks and shorts channels. We used an agency that we're employing full time video editors and they were cutting up our videos. And they're doing lots of animation. And it was, in my mind extremely impressive. They're finding good clips, and they did a really good job animating them. And after running that experiment, I think for full like seven months, we said, okay, cool, we gave it a really good shot. And in the end, it didn't get the engagement that it needed to get to get a return for us. Now, I've seen other podcasts do really well with short form video, but they're mostly like, really general podcasts. So if they're talking about finances, or they're talking about, you know, something that's happening, kind of in the cultural zeitgeist, everyone's really thinking about this thing. So right now, if you're talking about Elon Musk, and Twitter, like maybe those would blow up. But as soon as you start talking about, here's how to do this on podcasts, it doesn't seem to do as well, it feels like it needs to have a minimum bar of quality. And it doesn't feel like that's there with AI stuff. Yet. In the future, I can see tons of people using this. But it would probably be needed to be a bit cheaper. And it would have to be a bit more automated. So it was just scanning your RSS feed, it was picking pretty good clips, and I was clipping them and creating on it, they putting them out on your tic tock like it would need to be pretty close to seamless. And it's not close to as good as what we were getting with the agency. So I would not be excited to like, invest more time into these videos.

Jordan: 6:27

I was really surprised at the cost of this because you said $100. So it was $100 for three videos, Kevin.

Kevin: 6:35

But they had different plans. The $100 for three videos I think was the cheapest one, which is where I started to test it out. That's the best one, it was the cheapest. And I think it went up to like $500 a month. And you got like maybe three videos per episode for a weekly podcasts. So like 12 videos a month for $500 or something like that.

Jordan: 6:51

Is that expensive? Or is that-

Kevin: 6:54

That feels pretty expensive to me for the audience in which it seems to be targeted that it seems to be targeted towards like independent podcasters who want to spend some money on promotion, but they don't have a ton of time that maybe they have a little bit more money than time. So to spend $500 to grow and in the podcast through social media efforts. Seems I don't know. But the type of videos that we got back, I wouldn't feel very excited about it. But I have seen these types of videos work on Instagram and Tiktok and YouTube shorts, more like what Alban was talking about the clips that I see that are really good. They're conversations, or somebody's telling a story, or it's a mystery podcast or true crime or something like that. And they're giving you a little bit of the gist of the story or they're leading you up to a cliffhanger. And then they cut to like a promo, like, listen to the podcast to get the whole story or something like that. Those things seemed to work really good. If you can do that in 3045 seconds. I don't know that you need an AI company to do that. I think you just need to record video, your podcast. And then you know, cut it up. And just remember Oh, at the beginning of the podcast when Alban was telling us like what the story is that we're going to be discussing today, he did a really good cliffhanger segments about 45 seconds, you can turn that down, include the video uploaded to TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube shorts. And you might have a clip that gets some traction. I don't know like how sophisticated AI needs to get before it's going to be able to figure out that this segment isn't just interesting topic. But it's actually an interesting clip. Right? It seems like the next level of this is a good summary of a whole bunch of stuff that we're talking about. But it doesn't give away too much like it would draw people in to listen to more. That still feels a little bit like you know, AI Ken is getting pretty good at summarizing things, but I'm not sure how good it is at teasing things. Yeah.

Jordan: 8:29

Yeah, AI is actually getting really good at detecting Search Engine Optimization scores, too. So I imagine it probably chose those clips based on like the popularity of talking about AI maybe I don't know if that would go into it. But it could have

Kevin: 8:45

Yeah, I wondered how much of it has to do with the title of the episode also, because we titled that episode something about AI. And so I think maybe depending on how much AI versus human involvement there was, if you just looked at the title, then it would be scanning the audio and transcribing and trying to find segments when we're talking about AI because it thinks that's the main topic of the podcast, when really it wasn't it was just one of four or five segments that we talked about in that show.

Alban: 9:09

Have either of you updated your phones to iOS? 16.2?

Kevin: 9:12

Yeah, man, you know I did.

Jordan: 9:13

I don't think I have.

Alban: 9:15

Well, you should. I forget what else was in there. I think the Freeform app, which is kind of cool.

Kevin: 9:20

And Apple Music Sing.

Jordan: 9:21

Oh yeah!

Alban: 9:22

Music Sing.

Jordan: 9:25

I forgot. Yeah.

Alban: 9:27

But the important one for this podcast is updates to Apple podcasts. So the big one, at least for our listeners is remember like it used to be subscribe, and then Apple podcasts was follow. And then it became a plus. And now it is a plus follow.

Jordan: 9:44

It's like they minimized it down so much to where they're like okay, that's too minimal, and then they had to like just add a little bit extra.

Alban: 9:53

Well, we'd heard that the same amount of people were clicking it when it was just a plus or when it was the word follow. And, I don't know, makes me kind of wonder if that 100% was true because now it's changed to plus follow you now that Apple has that follow button, it says the word a and Spotify uses the word at this point. I mean, if you look at the Buzzsprout platform stats, that's over two thirds of all podcast listeners, their experience is this word, follow not the word subscribe. And so it does make me think like other podcast apps, it's probably time to get on board. If Spotify and Apple agree on this, it's time if you're an indie developer, to start adopting that nomenclature, like you follow a show to get the auto downloads, and then you subscribe to the show, if you want to pay for it. I'll be honest, though, for myself, it's still difficult to use those words in that way, since for so long Subscribe was to like, subscribe to the RSS feed. But this is the way people are using it. And the apps people are using are apple and Spotify. So I think it's time to kind of push the rest of the industry to start adopting these words.

Kevin: 11:00

Overcast switched to follow. Yep.

Jordan: 11:08

You know, thinking about this with YouTube adding podcasts, you know, YouTube is famous for the "smash that subscribe". And so I'm wondering if they're also going to follow suit on that with podcasts.

Alban: 11:26

I don't know. I mean, YouTube's held out way longer than everybody else, you know, it was subscribed was much more common back in the day, then everything started moving to follow. And podcasting was lagging a little bit behind. So I'll be interested to see if YouTube changes though, it seems like YouTube is just over time, they've just decreased the importance of subscribers, you know, they're moving towards more of this kind of like algorithmic feed. And you can subscribe to 50 different channels and never really see those channels. And you can also not subscribe to a channel and see tons of their content recommended for you. So I think their whole thing has been, yeah, the subscriber thing still exists, but it's becoming deprioritized quite a bit.

Jordan: 12:06

I'm just kind of wondering with like the shift and monetization going from ads to community or listener support through subscriptions, donations, things like that. I'm just wondering if YouTube is going to kind of follow suit with that, too, you know, and then maybe there's will change as well, like if they decide that they're going to have a subscriber supported content, as opposed to just the free content.

Alban: 12:31

We could see that. I mean, I know that YouTube has a lot of these things already out there. There's like super chat, and you can do merch through YouTube, and think you can pay for premium content. I don't know YouTube has like 14 ways to monetize. So it's always hard to change names. I actually noticed I was listening to the radio and driving. And they're like, "Oh, you can also listen to us on iTunes. Like, whoa, there's a throwback, like, this is a radio show talking about, hey, we're on podcasts, you can listen to us on iTunes." And that's now what, six years outdated? Names just stick, and they're really sticky. It's pretty big deal, to shift names that people use. And so I do get the move towards follow. But I think for something like YouTube that's already got all this stuff built in. It's a big deal for them to decide to change it from like,"smash that subscribe button" to"smash that follow button".

Kevin: 13:27

Yeah, well, I think that's the big part of this change that we just saw in Apple podcasts is that the term did change. But for a long while it wasn't labeled follow, it was just a plus icon. And so what you were doing was following the podcast, but that action wasn't being reinforced with the label that you were tapping on. And so I don't know the thinking behind it, is it people don't know what the plus does? And so we need to add some clarity around that. So we're gonna put the words follow next to it, or is it the importance of the nomenclature thought through like when they made this change? They don't talk about stuff like that. I guess it doesn't really matter. But what does matter is that I think it's going to help people start talking about or thinking and talking about when you're going to follow a podcast or subscribe to a podcast, or somehow you're going to become a fan of this podcast. I want regular updates on this podcast. That term I think will now start becoming more consistently the word follow, and probably less, so subscribe, subscribe, and YouTube go hand in hand if YouTube ever switched to follow from subscribe. I mean, that would be like the iTunes Apple Music Apple podcasts change that would be huge. It still would take years before people would stop saying subscribe. And think about the backlog of videos that are on YouTube that say you know please subscribe and all this other stuff. Ridiculous.

Alban: 14:38

Let me throw in a theory then what if Apple podcast they switched from subscribe to follow in the lead up to adding Apple podcast subscriptions. And if you were on that team, and all of a sudden you started seeing, hey, things have shifted. But a lot of people are confused about this nomenclature. No one's clicking this Follow button the way we expect them to. There's been a drop off from subscribe to follow. And he said, Well, we've got to get this to click in people's brains. One way you could make an argument, I'm not saying that this is what happened, but I could make an argument. Okay, everyone's confused because it was one word, then it was another word, just take the words away for a bit, and just put in a plus sign for a year. And people will get habituated just clicking the plus sign because they know like plus this to my library, and then you do plus follow. And now that's the word. So maybe it was like a year to clean out everyone's memory that you think, Oh, it was subscribed. Now it's follow like, just get rid of the words. It's plussing. And now it's plus follow. So maybe it was intentional to give it a year. And then so when they came back to using a word, that maybe they think it would help people move past the switch. That's not a conspiracy theory, because it's not like juicy, but it's me trying to guess like, what's the thinking behind? Or else maybe they just switched it, they saw, it really doesn't improve the user experience. Let's just add follow in there as well.

Jordan: 16:04

I feel like that one's the more likely scenario than them like masterminding this timeline of like acclimating people to certain language.

Alban: 16:16

Probably the more likely one.

Kevin: 16:18

I will say I had some anxiety for a little bit, because when I downloaded the new iOS, and it came with this apple podcasts update, I went in and I looked at the new Follow button. And it was pretty good. It was pretty great. It's smooth at work how I want to, but there's this little animation that happens. And that's a nice animation, too. I tweeted about it. But after the animation completes, it switches to it arrow that's pointing down. And if you tap on that, you get a couple of options. One of them for me was turn on Auto downloads. And I'm like what is that I had some anxiety building like is Apple by default, turning off auto downloads, because I'm a fan about it downloads I know everyone doesn't like it. But I travel a lot in with spotty cell phone coverage. hop on a plane, don't always want to buy the Wi Fi for a short flight, want to download some podcasts, whatever. I love the auto download feature. I love the fact that my phone always like every day has 15 or 20 of the latest episodes that dropped over the past 2448 hours ready for me and I don't need cell service to be able to get them. But Apple podcasts was showing me like I had to manually turn on auto downloads. So I freaked out. I emailed a couple people at Apple, I'm like what's going on?

Alban: 17:24

You just had it turned off, didn't you?

Kevin: 17:26

I did.

Alban: 17:28

I was like, that's not the experience for me. I click it and it like rolls into a check.

Kevin: 17:33

No, I totally bothered people at Apple who like have very busy jobs and I shot them like SOS emails. "What is going on? What changed? Do you have documentation on this?" And they like wrote back very nicely and calmly. "Yeah, all the documentation is right here." And I went to my settings app. And yeah, I had turned off auto downloads, probably when I was testing something at some point, and just forgot. Sorry, Apple

Jordan: 17:57

You're just like, abusing your connections over friends. there.

Kevin: 18:01

I didn't mean to, but I thought what's wrong? Like, this is huge news.

Alban: 18:06

Kevin's like, remember the old days when people would write Steve Jobs like they send him personal emails. And every once awhile he'd respond. That's Kevin, "Why is Apple podcast not working, Tim Cook?" They're like, "What?"

Kevin: 18:21

I'm fan of independent podcasters. I'm a fan of independent podcast app creators. But I gotta say Apple podcasts is a really good app for listening to podcasts, they continually are making this thing better and better and better. The subscriptions mechanism that they have built in now is the absolute hands down best way to subscribe to a podcast. It downloads great and works great with Apple Watch. If you're in the Apple ecosystem, it's a really good way listen to podcasts. I just gotta say it, I'm not ashamed. I mean, I like Apple stuff. But three, four years ago, when I started really getting into podcasts listening to every day, I found enough problems with the Apple podcast app that I wanted to go look for some third party apps, and I found third party apps that fit my needs better. downloading this latest version, I found myself like clicking through it. And I'm like cash is really good. Like, I don't know if there's as much of a draw for me anymore to continue to use third party apps or continue to look for new ones. And I love supporting independent podcast app creators. But I'm just saying Apple podcasts is getting really good. It's getting harder and harder for independent podcast listening app developers, I think to compete because the opposite good.

Alban: 19:24

Well, 38.2% of all podcast listeners agree with you, Kevin.

Kevin: 19:28

It really is great for podcasting because it's built into the phone. And so like, not only is it a great way for you to be introduced to podcasts, but it's a good experience. Like you're going to be able to find shows that you'd like you're going to subscribe to them. It's going to work, it's going to download your episodes for you and have them waiting for you. It gives you all the playback speed controls that you want, and it sounds really good. And sleep timers and integration with CarPlay and your Apple Watch and everything like it's just it's just solid. And so I think it's really good for podcasting. There are of course unique features that you might desire that are just like For people who are into podcasting a lot, and you might find a third party app that has something unique that you really love, but for most people, Apple podcast is a great app. And I even find myself after years and years and years of listening, coming back to Apple podcasts and saying, You know what, I could totally use this. It's a solid app. It's great.

Jordan: 20:15

I'm just holding out hope that they do an Apple Podcasts "wrapped" because my Spotify Wrapped did not fully represent my podcast listening. Because I actually share pretty equally between the two. There's certain podcasts I listen to on Apple podcast, and there's certain ones I listen to on Spotify. And, yeah, so I'm kinda like crossing my fingers that they do it this year. You know, maybe in January, they'll drop it, but they need to Yeah,

Kevin: 20:42

I got a nice email from Spotify that said something like, sorry, you didn't listen enough for wrapped.

Alban: 20:49

I don't know if that was like a "wrap", that was just like angry email. It was like,"Hey, Kevin!"

Jordan: 20:55

"You're not listening enough!"

Kevin: 20:59

I think Spotify kind of is the big one that's popular on the social media sites that people share. But I got one from peloton this year called the peloton cooldown, which was a summary of all your workouts and like which instructors you liked, in which playlists you liked, and how far you ran and all other kind of stuff. And I think I can't remember off the top my head but I've seen a couple other ones on social. Have you guys seen like, is this concept becoming a bigger thing?

Alban: 21:29

Absolutely. I was thinking this the other day. So Spotify had this like four year period where they seemed like they were the only ones really doing it. They're doing a really good job. And Apple Music does it now. And I think I saw some of the smaller indie podcast apps are doing it. And then even things like the newsletter thing we used to send our email newsletter was like you wrote this many emails, you got this many people. So I think that everyone's looked at it went, Ooh, that was smart Spotify, and now it's becoming kind of built in. If it's something you spend a long time watching or listening, Netflix did there's I think that now they realized if you spend a lot of time with his app, you probably at the end of the year will be excited to see how much time you spent what things about you we learned.

Kevin: 22:12

Yeah, there's some like notable misses, like Facebook isn't sending out, "You wasted, you know, 40,000 hours."

Alban: 22:22

This year, Reddit had a really good one that was like they made it into a lot of Reddit inside jokes. And they told you like, which apps you enjoyed and what your best comments were. But if Facebook was like, "You spent 700 hours arguing with your uncle, about like this politics issue", you're like, "Yeah, probably not good."

Kevin: 22:39

Can you imagine if Apple or Android did it for your phone as a whole?

Alban: 22:44

Does it every week, and I'm depressed every week to see my screen time.

Kevin: 22:47

Yeah, they do do the screen time reports. But can you imagine if they summarize the whole year for you?

Alban: 22:52

Yeah.

Kevin: 22:53

And like put it to music? And maybe

Alban: 22:56

They need to have that uh, what's it? Like," I hope you had the time of your life" song. As your like, see, like 6000 hours spent on this, you're like, "ooh, not good."

Jordan: 23:07

They're just like "You could have learned Cantonese in the time that you spent on TikTok!"

Kevin: 23:12

So do you think Spotify was the first to do this? You know, we've been doing Year-in-Reviews for Buzzsprout for, for many years now. I don't remember when we started. Was it after? Did Spotify start doing wrapped before we started in the Buzzsprout Year-in-Review.

Alban: 23:25

I don't know. I mean, I know we've done it now three or four years. I think Spotify is probably longer. But no matter what Spotify is much at a much larger audience before we were much larger scale, larger scale. One difference we've always had is that we are a little bit strict with the calendar. We're like, okay, you don't get your year in review until the year is over. And it feels like this arms race keeps going up. You know more and more intense. The now we're into like end of November and everyone's sending these emails next year. It'll be like October 4, and people are like "Here's your year-in-reviews!"

Jordan: 23:59

Right? It's like the Christmas decorations in the grocery stores. It's just not yet.

Alban: 24:04

It's the Black Friday deals that just keep moving in like they're two weeks ahead of Thanksgiving. They're like the new Black Friday and you're like what?

Jordan: 24:13

Yeah, Cyber Monday is now Cyber Week. Just too much of a good thing.

Kevin: 24:19

So for anyone curious, we are still doing the Buzzsprout Year-in-Rview. The design team is working hard on that and it's got some fun new surprises this year, a fresh new look, some new stats and we will deliver at the same time we deliver every year and have been for the past four or five years and that will be early January.

Jordan: 24:36

After the year is over.

Kevin: 24:39

Your full year in review, not your through fall review.

Jordan: 24:47

Audacy recently published "State of Audio: 11 Moments That Matter", which dives into when listeners are consuming audio and what their daily rituals with audio are like. And one of the first findings that they have listed out in this report is that 74% of listeners consume audio during daily rituals. It kind of got me thinking like, "Oh, I do do that.!" Like, I have a set of podcasts that I listen to, when I get ready in the morning. And it's only those ones. There's certain set of podcasts I listen to while I work. And then there's some that I listen to while I do dinner or dishes, and then certain podcasts I listen to in the car. And so I'm kind of curious if either of you consider podcasts part of like your daily routine, or are you in like the 26% that don't?

Kevin: 25:31

I'm totally in this group of daily routiners. Like, I saw this list that you put in the notes, the outline for the episode today. And 100%. This is exactly where I land. So I kind of throw this in. Like who doesn't do this? Who are these 26 percenters who just have these completely unscheduled? Still figured out ways to listen to podcasts? It's crazy.

Alban: 25:53

I kind of figured that it's just one of these like, do you consume audio during daily rituals? And maybe like, 26% of people don't consider things a daily ritual. They're like, well, drive isn't a daily ritual. Like, it must be like a definitional thing. Because, yeah, well, like Kevin said, Is your life just chaos, but you happen to be listening to podcasts in the middle of it. I don't just have certain times of the day that I listen to shows, but I also have certain shows that fit certain moods. If I'm going to listen to any sort of like news, what's happening in the world, that's like a morning activity, or run is going to be something that's much more long form, because then I'm invested for you know, during the full run at night, then we were looking for things a little bit more contemplative. If I ever play something is like I fall asleep like that has to be something that I'm totally fine missing out on. So I have very different feels for different times.

Jordan: 26:47

It's funny because you and I are kind of like the opposite. I listen to like the investigative, true crime, I call my shower podcasts. Like I listen to the really dark stuff while I get ready in the mornings, like that's how I start my day off, which kind of explains a lot.

Kevin: 27:01

You're like, you're like Wednesday Adams. Start your day on a negative note.

Jordan: 27:06

And then in the evenings, you know, when I'm kind of like wrapping things up is when I listened to like my comedy podcasts, like my raunchy, like, Hello From The Magic Tavern or Meddling Adults, things that are really light hearted and just funny. Those I listened to at night, which is I know it's weird, more backwards.

Alban: 27:23

As long as you're not listening to like, what bad things are happening in the world news right before bed. I thought that's where you're headed with it. I was like, I couldn't listen to anything like, you know, check out all of the new terrible data about climate change, and then be like, all agitated, go to bed.

Jordan: 27:39

No, I actually just block all that out.

Alban: 27:41

I thought this was funny. The 60% of listeners say they steal a moment to have more time to listen to podcasts. And then I went through this list. And I think I'm in for all of these, like, maybe not every one of them. But a lot of these seemed totally normal to me. Let me say it that way. sat in the car after arriving home. Yeah, who hasn't done that? Taken another route home? Definitely, if I'm out for like a walk and it was something good? Like, oh, yeah, I'm just gonna walk a bit further. Or maybe I'll drive a little bit longer. I'll take a slower route and not feel stressed about it. Stayed in the bathroom longer. Once you have kids, this is a no brainer. Soon as you have like, this is the one moment Nobody's allowed to like question you're like, I just gotta have another minute to myself. You gotta take it took more time shopping or walking instead of a rideshare. Pretend you're working. I'm doing that right now. Like these. These seem totally normal. Like, I'm surprised that there's people who say they haven't done these things.

Jordan: 28:41

What I found was really funny in this is actually in the report, they break down that like it was mostly women who sat in their car after they arrived at their destination. And it was mostly men that pretended they were working while listening to audio. And also it was almost entirely men who would drop the kids off at a play date.

Alban: 29:01

So that one, that one I've not done, but like imagine setting up a playdate and you're like, "Hey, cool if I drop my kid off your house? I really want to catch up on a podcast." Like, I've never experienced that one.

Kevin: 29:15

I'm experiencing this more and more in my life where in the evening, my wife and I would oftentimes walk the dog together and now started with her. But now it's happening with me too. Now it's more like she's like, Oh, well, I was gonna listen to this podcast while I walked the dog. So you don't have to come? Oh, no. It's like, it's not the dog that's interrupting art marriage. It's podcasts that are now replacing me. But I actually have the same feeling sometimes to like, if, if I'm gonna go walk the dog or something like that. And she's like, Oh, do you want to come with you? I'm like, No, I'm good. I want to catch up on the show or something like that. That's the one thing about probably like TV watching has always kind of been like a social thing. Like it's thing you could do with other people. But podcasts listening is kind of something you do on your own.

Alban: 29:54

Yeah, actually, this reminds me of books. Kevin. When I was a kid, I have a distinct memory of walking into a room restaurant to eat just with my dad. Yes, you're gonna bring your book because he had his book in his head and read his book. And I was like, Oh, I thought we would talk. He's like, bring the book.

Kevin: 30:15

That's perfect. So maybe that's where we have to get in a relationship where we're comfortable just walking next to each other, not talking and just listening to our own podcasts.

Jordan: 30:23

There are some podcasts that my husband I will listen to together sometimes like, especially if there's like a really funny episode of like this fiction podcast that we love or something like that. There have been a couple nights like we'll sit down with like a glass of wine. And we'll have the podcast was playing well just be sitting on the couch listening to it. Yeah.

Kevin: 30:39

Like, I don't know how I would do in that experience. What are you looking at? You like looking at each other. You're looking at the ground, staring into each other's eyes.

Alban: 30:49

You're just staring at each other listening to Tales from the Magic Tavern.

Jordan: 30:53

Yeah, Hello from the Magic Tavern. That's literally the one that I'm talking about. Because we have a Spotify app on the TV, right? And so we'll just have it up and just zone out and listen to it does not talk to each other, but we'll laugh about things.

Kevin: 31:05

Yeah, just look around. I have I've known about this feature for a while, but I've never tried it. But if you have air pods, the wireless Apple, your pods, and you have a couple sets of them. I think you can share your audio with other air pods.

Jordan: 31:16

Oh, really?

Kevin: 31:17

Yeah, have you guys tried that?

Alban: 31:18

That just seems so strange to me. I mean, I remember like with Walkmans, like getting the audio jack splitter so that you could listen to the same music as somebody else. And like, you'd be on a long car ride.

Kevin: 31:28

But you can't go more than three feet from them.

Alban: 31:30

That kind of forced the shared experience. But if it's like air pods, and of doing something else, and you're in a different room, then the shared experience is diluted enough.

Kevin: 31:41

It's not going to work across rooms. But I'm thinking if you're walking together, like if you're going for a walk together, walking a dog or something like that, even going for a run out would be a cool experience, listen to same playlist. I don't know, I try that over the holiday break. See if I can find a share your audio buddy to try it with.

Jordan: 31:59

The other thing that they did with this study is kind of figured out what exactly the moments or rituals or like listening habits were of the people that they surveyed. And what's interesting about the study is that it's geared towards advertisers. But I felt like there were takeaways that podcasters could use as well. So the moments that matter, they said there was me time. And they were saying that this is the best time to introduce like meaningful action driven content that adds value to the moment of the listener. They said that people who listen to podcasts when they commute are actually more deeply connected with the hosts. And they recommended using like live reads and host endorsements for this listeners who listen audio, when they're exercising, you need to keep it high energy and motivate the listener and just things like that. There's one that I really did not like about this. One of the categories they had was putting kids to bed, and they said parents are hands full, but ears open, which means less ad skipping, this is your chance to dial up the ad frequency. To which I said Nope, don't do that. You will lose listeners.

Alban: 33:05

So you're putting your kids to bed, but you have air pods in so you're ignoring your children as you're putting them to bed. You're like no story tonight. Listen to my podcast, while actually I'm listening to like back to back to back ads, because they know my hands are busy. That feels like you're really missing out on the value of parenting, like the joy of parenting is all of those annoying moments that when you pay attention, like oh, these are actually good moments. I don't know if I would want to be listened to a podcast then?

Jordan: 33:32

Well, yeah, and I mean, even besides that, it's like take advantage of the person who's got their hands to full like they're doing the dishes take advantage of the person that is like chasing their kids. And so they can't skip ads. So just put as many as you want go crazy. And I think that's actually really bad advice. But they had another one that was like before the game and they're saying sports listeners are loyal. So talk to them, like good friends, which I can see that. But there's just little things like that in this study, if you will, like want to read through it. How a podcaster can use this data is you can find out when your audience listens to your podcast. So whether that be you know, maybe your listeners listen to you most when they're driving or doing the dishes. And the way that you can do this is you can either ask your listeners on the podcast, you can have them tweet at you or send you a message on social media. You can also do I've done in the past is run a listener survey. I've done that through Google forums because it's free and it's easy and you can drop a link to the form of the listener survey. And just find out what time of day your listeners listen to your podcast. Do they do certain like habits or activities while they listen to your podcast the most often and things like that are going to help you to shape like how you connect with your listeners and what brands you work with. So maybe if your podcast listeners I know work on their cars a lot when they listen to your podcast. Then you'll know that you want to go with like automotive sponsors and brands when you do monitor ties your podcast. And then there's also like where to place your call to action that could help a little bit or whether you use post read or programmatic ads, because they said that listeners that just kind of casually listen, you know, maybe they're just take like a quick break. And so they're just gonna catch up on the podcast, they're probably going to be more cool with programmatic advertising than somebody who is listening to your podcast, like in a deeply connected manner, or when they're busy and they don't want to skip

Alban: 35:25

I read a lot of this advice as being so general that it was useless. I thought, it's super interesting for people to tell you this is how I listen to shows was side point was John Spurlock wrote us about how much he liked our segment last week about all of our individual listening habits when we subscribe, and when we unsubscribe to shows, because not many people talk about that. And so I think that was interesting. So in the same way, this is really interesting to me to read. But like the idea, is it really true like if I have a sports podcast, and then I asked my audience, and they say, actually, I often listen to you before the game. And then I'm like, got it. Now I'm going to talk to him like good friends. Like you're probably already talking that way. And if you're not, like, am I going to change the I already have the listeners, and they've just said, like, actually, it's when I'm drinking coffee. And then I go look at like the drinking coffee line and scroll over and go, Okay, that means compelling stories, because they have a moment to take the message. They just feel like kind of like someone was like, Oh, sounds like a good idea. I seriously doubt this is backed up by like real data. It just feels like it's kind of smart advice. But it doesn't feel like it's really actionable. I don't know, I took it as like, there's not a whole lot there.

Jordan: 36:38

You know, I agree with that. And I can definitely understand where you're coming from. I think reading through this, it reminded me of this one time I was doing the dishes, I was listening to this podcast. And they were like, "Look, I know like you're doing the dishes right now. But just pause if you don't want to spoiler for like this." And it made me laugh so much. Because I was like,"Yeah, this actually is my dishwashing podcast!" Like I consistently listen to this podcast when I'm doing dishes is my favorite podcast listened to when I do dishes. And I think it's just kind of like a different way to connect with your listeners.

Alban: 37:10

I think that that is super interesting. So if you were to run a survey, and people were like, I'm often listening while I'm doing the dishes, and then you shared that with your audience. And then they're all feeling like, you know, not only am I here doing this by myself, but I'm actually not really by myself, there's like probably a dozen other people who are listening to the same podcast doing the same thing. I think that connection is cool. But then if I were to go down to this list and be like, ooh, many people are saying they are exercising, exercising means high energy and motivate the listener, do you really think like the show is getting better, because you learned that 12% of people are exercising, and you think that's a little higher than average. So now you're trying to change the whole show to be more motivational. It feels like this is for the listener to decide where it fits into their life based on the energy you're already bringing. So if it's, you know, good friend talk, then they're saying it fits into the time of my day, when that's what I'm looking for. I'm looking for kind of this friendship connection feeling. Doesn't that make sense? Like you and I are getting the same thing from different some of that same podcasts. And yet, we both talked about how they fit into different parts of our day. Because of that, because our days don't look similar. And this is coming from the other end is saying everyone's days are kind of similar. And so soon as you figure out which bucket you're in, now make the show just like that bucket. And that feels backwards to me.

Jordan: 38:29

I don't think that they're saying make the show like the bucket. It's your messaging, like your call to action, what advertisers you work with things like that, how you format your ad placements. So you know, if we're using the dishwashing example, you don't want to have a podcast that has ads placed in like five different sections, because your listeners are gonna have to stop and like dry off their hands and skip the ad, what you can do is you can just have maybe like a section of pre roll ads, or some people do just like a bulk of three host read ads in the middle of their podcast, as opposed to having it placed in between different segments, because they know that they're like the dishwashing podcast, and then so the listeners can just be like, Okay, here's the part where I dry my hands. gonna skip this little bit, and then we're back in and I can go back to washing dishes.

Alban: 39:17

Maybe I'm bringing a little bit of the context for this is I've read so many of these articles on how to optimize ads and how to optimize a website for a SaaS product, and all sorts of different marketing advice. And this feels very similar, where they'll say things like, use this type of language, it triggers this bit of psychology, it will cause people to do this. And then we actually run a lot of these experiments, and they actually do the opposite of the thing. And there's a lot of this just like general advice, which is often like connected to psychology that's like, well, the reciprocity is real. So give people a small mint and then you'll increase your tips by 12%. And like some of these I think are real. And I think there's just so much of this advice that gets passed around that doesn't feel real. So maybe I'm bringing a little bit of that to this aggregate advice. I do think there are shows, though, that we often give advice that's about like how to clean up a podcast episode, how to maybe edit it down to be like, Oh, really get the best parts of the podcast only and only put that into the show. I have wondered reading this. And I think this is true for me. There's some podcasts, actually, the unedited and extremely long format is that's actually the benefit. It's a feature, not a bug. And so I think people who listen to some of these, like really long shows, and a lot of them are people who are like driving a car for a living, or they're spending a lot of time like working with their hands. And they've got something like eight, nine hours to listen to stuff a day. And for people like that, like a three hour podcast is actually better than a 15 minute because they're like,"Oh, I just, yeah, cool. New episode has popped up. Perfect." I mean, if you ever talked to somebody who's like a cab driver, it feels like a male cab driver has like an 80% chance of listening to Joe Rogan. Like every time you ask him, do you listen to podcasts? And I think a lot of it is like, I just have a ton of time to listen. And so I'm interested in podcasts that are putting out an average of like two hours a day of content. Alright, so that's a theory that maybe we can play with. But it might fit into this. Like, that kind of sounds right. But it's also be us category.

Jordan: 41:30

Alban, I know that you've probably heard this a lot. But for years, podcast coaches, marketers have been saying this critical to post your episode on a certain day of the week, and it is the best day of the week, and you won't be successful. Unless you post on that certain day of the week,

Alban: 41:45

I might have been one of the people saying it to me. I don't think there's a magic day, I do think there's a value in setting people's expectation that they know like, oh, Tuesday, this will be there. And then it's there on Tuesday. So I think consistency is valuable. I don't think Monday versus Thursday is the magic day.

Jordan: 42:06

Okay, I thought we were gonna have like some issues because nothing makes me eyeroll harder than when a podcaster says, "What day of the week should I publish?" And then people are like, "You have to do Tuesday because studies say". You know, just drives me crazy.

Alban: 42:20

Does it not occur to people though, if Tuesday is the day, wouldn't it become not the day as soon as everybody starts publishing on Tuesday, so then the day would move to Monday, which is like the most obvious day, but now everyone's moved to Tuesday to try to get a little bit of an advantage. I think a lot of that is also maybe people want certainty rather than they want the actual truth, which is I don't think this makes a big difference.

Jordan: 42:45

Yeah, exactly. I think pod chaser may have finally squashed those made up rules by creating a report that shares the most and least popular days of the week for releasing podcast episodes for the top 50,000 podcasts. So the results are, it doesn't matter. Unsurprisingly, it does not matter the top 50,000 podcasts on pod chaser, were neck and neck for publishing days being Monday through Friday, every single day was between 16 and 17%. And then Saturday and Sunday were the least popular days at about 7%. But it is the least interesting stat I've ever looked at because it's just straight across the board.

Alban: 43:29

I mean, imagine like if someone told you, you should really release your book on a certain day, because then people really liked the book or something like, it doesn't seem like it makes sense anywhere else. I don't know. It always felt like silly advice to me. So you're free from feeling like you have to release on a specific day, though, I still agree that there's value to consistency. Because as we saw in the other segment, people are a creature of habit and we fit podcasts into our lives. If you start fitting it into a part of your life, you might be disappointed when it's not there. So being consistent is valuable. Though I don't know if there's any value to a specific day of the week.

Kevin: 44:09

recording every week, and I think they do it like is it Wednesday evenings? Does that sound right? I think it's Wednesday evenings, I don't know that I've ever tuned in for a live show. I've heard of people saying oh, we record this podcast live and then I completely tune out. So I don't even know when they record live. That's how little interest I haven't listened to live podcasts. But yeah, if you do a live show, I guess you should consider when will people be more available to be able to listen, live so that you can interact with it? But outside of that it's on demand? It's like who cares? Right? Do you care what time I guess some people do for some shows like that's another thing that I can't really relate to is like when the next new episode of X show is gonna get dropped on Netflix or whatever, who cares. It's like it's gonna be there forever. Don't have to show up the minute it drops and start watching it immediately.

Alban: 45:00

I think that matters for things that aren't like Netflix that are in these continuing series. And so you're like, oh, on Friday is the day this show comes out? You know, that's the one time that it seems to make sense. Beyond that, it's just like, Yeah, I'll probably watch it when I watch it. And that'll be okay.

Kevin: 45:18

Yeah, for the idea that something is coming out on this specific day and time. And there's this group of people that I'm going to be in person with shortly afterward, and we're going to discuss it then times matter, right? So if you have, I don't know, a Friday morning breakfast with a friend group. And you're always talking about the latest episode of this podcast that you're following. Yeah. Then what Alban said, makes a lot of sense. Like, if that episode didn't drop Thursdays, everybody could listen, because they're getting together for breakfast Friday, then that's a bummer. But doesn't matter if your podcast came out Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, doesn't matter. As long as it was there by Friday, because that's when the breakfast happens.

Jordan: 45:53

Yeah, doesn't matter so much whenever you want. Just be consistent. Whatever day you choose. Last year, you did 2022 podcast predictions. Did they come true?

Kevin: 46:06

Don't. Don't do all that. That's, it's just miserable.

Alban: 46:09

Are you actually mad? Why would this make you mad? We did these predictions last year. I think, are you just upset the prediction was wrong?

Kevin: 46:15

No, I didn't. I didn't want to do it last year, and you guys made me and now we're doing them again. And I'm still not happy about it's never going to change. Here's my prediction. My prediction is that I hate predictions. And I'll continue to predict that most of what anybody predicts won't come true. And so it's a waste of time to talk about things that actually have happened instead of things that may or may not happen.

Jordan: 46:38

I mean, it's funny you say that because Alban's prediction was dead on he said,

Alban: 46:44

My prediction is that YouTube makes a big move in podcasting.

Kevin: 46:51

That's great. Well, let's give him the futurist award. Celebrate him for all of 23

Alban: 46:58

I don't know if I take the future as door on that YouTube will make a big move at podcasting. And then they made the landing page for podcasting. I feel like I might take half a credit for that one I expected quite a bit more in 2022. But in 2023, I've got a big prediction. I'm ready. I'm ready for it. I don't even feel like I can. Now Kevin is so anti predictions whenever I just want to look at history, Kevin, he just want to look at the past.

Kevin: 47:22

And I want to live in the now. And I also want to talk about things that are happening now. Nothing is real, like everything in this whole segment that you're going to waste people's time listening to is not real realities.

Jordan: 47:39

We're not we're not doing like an entire episode. It's like one lousy segment.

Kevin: 47:43

Lousy, lousy. Please make the chapter title for this one lousy segment.

Alban: 47:50

I actually don't like predictions. I love the people like going back in highlighting bad predictions. There's a Twitter account this called like ice cold takes or something. And so it's just what people say like something with complete certainty about sports. And then it goes exactly 100% Wrong is the exact opposite of what they said it had negative predictive value, and then they just retweet that that's it. And those I get a ton of joy from so I mean, we really didn't have any that were bad. Kevin yours said:

Kevin: 48:24

"Well, mine is less of a prediction and more of a question and kind of a hope and a dream. I'm wondering if it's possible for a third party independent podcast app to ever break out and become really popular in terms of podcast listening." I didn't make a prediction, I made a wish.

Jordan: 48:42

I made a Christmas wish.

Kevin: 48:45

Right.

Alban: 48:46

Your Christmas wish did not come true. And actually this year on this episode, this very episode you went actually they're gonna be struggling even more now that Apple podcast has gotten even better. So you're undermining your Christmas wish in 2022.

Kevin: 49:01

I'm not undermining it. I'm just the challenge is harder than ever. But like, rise to the occasion.

Travis: 49:09

"My prediction in the same way that we had this breakout of celebrity podcasts like all these a list, movie stars and stuff like that starting podcasts. I think this is the year where the company branded podcast becomes standard."

Jordan: 49:24

I couldn't verify that. Though, I did see a lot of pod fade in branded podcasts. It looks like they, I think the opposite happened. I think they just kind of like tuckered out in they're like no this isn't really for me.

Alban: 49:37

Ice cold take, Travis. Alright, my prediction for next year is I don't know this is very spicy take but we see so many of these things have pulling the same direction. We've got a global recession that's kind of starting to kick off. Lots of people are being laid off. Lots of the biggest best networks in podcasting seem to be downsizing or they're not hiring. The exclusive deals seem to have dried up to next intent, or at least the deals have gotten smaller. And all of that combined, especially with all these discussions this year about some toxic work environments and the importance of owning IP, I think we're gonna see more of these creators that were maybe doing podcasting full time, like this was their full time job, go from working for a big agency working for one of the top networks, working for an exclusive deal, and just going to become indie creators, there's just so much more certainty there, there's a lot more creative control. And so that's my prediction that we see more of kind of these top tier creators start to go independent and blaze their own path.

Jordan: 50:41

So my 2023 podcast prediction is that there's going to be a rise in podcast and network channels on Roku and Amazon Fire TV. And this is kind of a weird one.

Alban: 50:53

That's way out there. This is unlikely to be true. I think.

Jordan: 50:57

Well, maybe I'm just so ahead of my time. This is kind of what led me there is that with YouTube, embracing podcasting, and people trying to move to video podcasts a bit more YouTube channels, people who have like YouTuber channels are on these apps, like they have apps on Roku, they have apps on Amazon Fire, I know, because I have some of those for my kids, I use their apps on a Roku so that they can easily access their favorite YouTubers. And so I believe that there will be a rise in podcasters doing the same thing, especially like maybe not indie podcasters. I actually don't think it's that expensive to create a channel. I don't think it's anything crazy. So I think it is attainable for an indie podcaster to do this. And I think that it's going to be a way to monetize with subscriptions. Because you can create a paid channel, I just think that it's one of those things that people are going to kind of figure out and start to do is just like another way to potentially monetize get more viewers, things like that for your podcast. So that's my way out of left field prediction.

Alban: 52:03

So predictions from the team, more Roku and Amazon Fire TV channels, more people from podcasts, major networks will go independent. And I will continue to hate predictions for Kevin, we will check in with everyone a year from today and see if these are true.

Kevin: 52:19

I'm feeling pretty good about mine. I feel like that's locked in.

Alban: 52:23

Yours is high probability. I did not know what I was getting myself into last week when I started talking about how much some people seem to love and others not really enjoy buzz boosts. And so we opened the floodgates by picking on poor T Shane Rogers, who left us a three star review because he didn't like Buzz bist. And then I said, Hey, reach out and let us know what you think. And we got a lot. I really liked that we did this Twitter thread of all the things we talked about. And people went on and commented and we started a little bit of a conversation with people outside of Buzz boosts will teach a wrote in and we kind of had a bit of a back and forth that I just wanted to share a little bit from his review. I still hate buzz boost with the fiery passion of 1000 suns. But you're right, I could have dropped a quick message instead of a snarky review. And TJ was actually nice enough to update his review. I am shocked that that actually worked that we we complained enough on the podcast that we got a nicer review. But TJ did have a decent point, which I actually think we agree with, which was, you know, maybe crypto isn't the best thing to be promoting to your podcasters. I mean, duly noted, because we agree. I don't think you're gonna make a ton of money. We also had people write in just saying, Hey, I actually did the math on all your SATs, and you got like $3. And you've talked about it for 20 minutes. I think these are all like totally legitimate points. Weird. This is not a money making venture. You know, we're not splitting up the SATs and going home and feeling like wow, what an incredible segment. It's just a way for us to communicate with the audience. So we started this Twitter thread where people can comment and instantly Twitter has now kind of changed its style a little bit. So maybe we'll have to find a new thing after Twitter falls apart. But we're doing our best. We just want ways for people to respond to the show.

Jordan: 54:29

I did see that Brad had replied to our post and said that the thing that he didn't like about the bus booths was that you had to pay to play sort of so like you had to give money in order to have your comments like read or to be able to communicate and things like that. So hopefully this Twitter thing will alleviate that a little bit.

Alban: 54:52

Yeah, this actually was kind of the opposite of what pod verse said. So pod verse wrote in and said, you know, the concept of Super Chat Slyke attaching money to a comment has kind of been around for a while. And one of the benefits of it is it seems to minimize a lot of spam. Like when everything's totally free, it does seem like you just get a ton of garbage. And as soon as you say like, there's a little bit of friction, you start getting a little bit of a benefit. Tom Rafferty wrote in he loves buzz boost, Christopher Warren Berg wrote in and actually started Twitter back up just to say, the buzz boost segment asked to go. Scott wrote in and said it was honestly his least favorite segment.

Kevin: 55:35

Love the verbiage though. Scott's handle is at not just an editor, so he's an editor. So when I see that I think words matter. And he said it's his least favorite segment, which to me still means it's in the favorite category. It's just at the bottom.

Jordan: 55:49

He says, but mostly because of the sound effects that are played with it. Which is why when I came in 90% of that went away, because I was also in that camp. I agree.

Kevin: 55:58

They were funny to me once or twice, but yeah, they've run their course we should, we should probably be done with sound effects. I think that's good feedback from Scott, who's not just an editor. He's also a podcast editor to helping us alright, so keep the feedback coming. Should we transition into some Buzzboosts?

Alban: 56:19

Go ahead and hit that skip ahead button, everybody. Dave Jackson at the School of podcasting sent us 2112 SATs thanks to the robot shout out. Either of you know what that's in reference to?

Jordan: 56:33

That is in reference to the post show in which we were playing with ChatGPT.

Alban: 56:38

Oh, yeah, that's right. ChatGPT said Dave Jackson was the host of this show. So they just appreciated that credit.

Jordan: 56:47

And then Dave Jones sent us 5150 sets and he said the beauty of booths is that people like to Shane have to pay you in order to complain. And you should never read starred reviews. It costs the reviewer nothing. So it's basically the equivalent of messages written in Sharpie in a bathroom stall.

Alban: 57:05

Wait, I have to I have to step in here TShane has sent a has paid Buzzsprout plenty of money. TShane has a podcast uses Buzzsprout so this is the stuff scrawled at the bathroom also somebody who's been listening to the show for a long time and then reached out so some people don't like crypto and stuff. I think that's fair.

Kevin: 57:26

That is harsh Dave Jones

Jordan: 57:28

I do agree with Dave though that you should never read starred reviews. It is not good.

Alban: 57:33

Jordan's not a fan of the star reviews.

Jordan: 57:36

Nope. I want them to go away.

Kevin: 57:38

Alright, our next one is from at Silas TV says do not get rid of the boosts likes them and the freedom to give money to Buzzcast to read silly messages. I don't want that to be taken away from us so great feedback thank you so I was TV and what they're here for now but keep the feedback coming from both sides.

Alban: 57:54

And final Buzzboost of the day. Mere Mortals Podcast, my default is to make my podcast a way that I would consume it so 100% on the chapter markers, especially the use of Chapter art I constantly refer to graphs memes general images and thanks to P two dot o with P two dot o podcasting two dot O which thanks to podcasting to Dotto, I can now show not only in the YouTube vid but also in the audio worth checking out if you want to save chapter art makes a difference. So thank you to mere mortals podcast for 2222 SATs. Due to all the negative feedback on buzz boost, I had to run these numbers. So we got some real SATs this week, we are almost 30,000 either, if you want to do some math in your head, what did we get 180 9484 SATs and that is equivalent to$4.96. So to change your chain, I think if anybody's critiquing it, you're just jealous that these five bucks we just made so great, worse, you're not a money making venture, but it's fun to use the tech. So we'll figure out ways to make this better for everybody, including the people who don't enjoy Buzzcast. This is not medical advice. Okay. Kevin has at this point provided me very sketchy medical advice on two separate occasions that both turned out to be correct. I don't know if either of them were provided as in Kevin's capacity as a doctor.

Kevin: 59:27

Well, I don't have any capacity as a doctor,

Alban: 59:30

Your capacity as a healer or something. The first one was when I got COVID. Kevin told me what you should do is run every day. And then the COVID will go away.

Kevin: 59:38

Oh, and drink and drink lots of coffee and drink a lot of coffee.

Alban: 59:42

I did get over the COVID So the only thing I can imagine is that Kevin was right. Well, and

Jordan: 59:47

I had gotten COVID But I don't run like I'm not a runner, but I do drink a lot of coffee. And it did not help so I think that

Kevin: 59:56

how do you know how do you know it didn't help. I didn't run out so

Alban: 1:00:00

because she didn't do it if anything that's even that's almost all the proof

Kevin: 1:00:03

I need like yeah Jordans coming out hot against my advice here but you don't have any anything to disprove. Oh,

Jordan: 1:00:09

that's the thing is like it worked just fine. I'm saying that Alban turned out just fine because he like ran. I mean, I turned out fine too. But like, I did the non running coffee version of your advice, and I got very sick. Well, yeah,

Alban: 1:00:28

well, the second was that for a year, I haven't been able to run without pretty significant foot pain, because of overtraining last year. And then Kevin, I ran on Thursday. And he gave me running advice, which was you have to drink electrolytes before the run. And you have to walk two blocks.

Kevin: 1:00:46

We walk a little bit. Yeah, and then we run. And then we walk a little bit. Are you doing the cold plunge too? Oh, yeah. Seems like you forgot

Jordan: 1:00:53

that makes your

Alban: 1:00:54

feet not hurts. Oh, three runs straight. Kevin. No foot pain. Whoa. So put that on. WebMD Oh,

Jordan: 1:01:01

are you doing the cold? Okay, so what kind of cold plunge like I know here in Idaho. I could just like go find a puddle. I'm sure and be very icy and cold. But what do you guys do in Florida for a cold plunge?

Kevin: 1:01:11

Yeah, you're lucky that you have that we are cold plunges are not nearly that cold mine this morning was 63. Oh, but ideally, they're supposed to be in the 40s. But you'd have to have like a real cold plunge to get it down to the 40s here in Florida.

Jordan: 1:01:23

Yeah, it's been like 11 degrees here. So you're good to go. Yeah, you might not even be able to get in the water because it's just frozen over. Have

Kevin: 1:01:31

you ever done it? Have you ever gotten super cold water? Me? Yeah.

Jordan: 1:01:35

No. But I have seen that there's a lot of studies about its benefits because it kind of like puts your body under stress. And that causes you to have less stress. And it's actually like very beneficial to you. I'm just kind of a chicken so I have not done any polar bear plunges. Yeah, it's

Kevin: 1:01:53

painful, but I've been doing it and seems to be worth it. I tracked my fitness on various fitness trackers and like, it measures your strain, how hard you're working based on your heart rate throughout the day. And as I've been cold plunging, as the temperature keeps dropping here and keeps getting colder and colder, my strain level keeps getting higher and higher. So I must be doing something.

Alban: 1:02:12

My Polar Plunge is just not turning up the heat in the shower. Who's taking cold showers? It's

Kevin: 1:02:20

you live like two blocks from the beach. What you should do is you should walk your two blocks to the beach, jump in the ocean for 10 minutes.

Alban: 1:02:25

Get out. Do you run in like soaking clothes? Yeah.

Kevin: 1:02:30

Well take your shirt off, and your socks, go get in the water. 10 minutes, then come out. You can run in wet shorts. It's fun. Kevin,

Alban: 1:02:36

I don't know if you've ever seen these people at the beach. But like, this is how you get arrested.

Kevin: 1:02:43

By going in the water, are you gonna get arrested the people

Alban: 1:02:46

out of the beach during December, like jumping in for 10 minutes and then running down the beach. That's just a very suspect. No, you can normalize it. It's fine. So this is your third piece of medical advice.

Kevin: 1:02:59

I'm just this is just logistics man. This is the it's the same advice. It's just how you can get it done. If you got access to the beach, it's nice and cold.

Jordan: 1:03:06

Sometimes I'll do like the Nancy Drew thing where you turn your shower like as cold as you can possibly stand it and then you turn as hot as you can possibly stand it. And I don't know if there's any benefit to that. Or then it's just like

Alban: 1:03:18

jolts you awake? Why is that called the Nancy Drew thing? That's what

Jordan: 1:03:21

she does. Yeah, looks just really really really cool. And really, really,

Alban: 1:03:25

that's like a major. I thought it was mostly like solving crimes and mystery.

Jordan: 1:03:29

I mean, she does other things too, like showers

Kevin: 1:03:36

I never read a lot of integers. So I don't know. The Hardy Boys did not do that. There wasn't was not a lot of shower talking to Hardy.

Alban: 1:03:44

Hardy Boys in Nancy Drew written by the same person. I was under the impression that that is true. Yeah, I think it was a guy who and then by the end, he was just writing, like, just the basic outline. And I was like chat gets hungry. And then they go and they saw this cry. And then there was like 40 people who are actually filling in all the rest of the book because they're always like the same.

Kevin: 1:04:06

It was it was probably chat GDP is the original

Alban: 1:04:09

version of chat GDP. Yeah. GPT GPT whatever.

Jordan: 1:04:13

It was actually the original version of like Scooby Doo crossovers, as well that was you know, they have I mean, they would have Scooby Doo like, I mean, because Nancy Drew and Hardy boys didn't they have like crossover books too? And it's like Scooby Doo and like Jabberjaw would like have an episode together.

Kevin: 1:04:30

I don't think so. I thought the Hardy Boys met books went back to like the 60s. Yeah, so as Nancy Drew maybe even earlier, but a Scooby Doo back then. Oh, yeah. Wait, there

Alban: 1:04:38

was a Nancy Drew Scooby Doo episode. Well,

Jordan: 1:04:41

no, I'm saying it was like the original Scooby Doo because I I'm pretty sure Nancy Drew and Hardy Boys had some crossover. And I'm just saying Scooby Doo how a lot of crossovers

Kevin: 1:04:52

Hardy Boys debuted in 1927. And from 59 to 73. There were 38 books.

Alban: 1:04:57

I'm searching now, Hardy Boys. Nancy Drew crossover. And I just always like these people always ask box on Google, like, what are people really interested in? Yeah. And there's like, which party boy dated Nancy Drew? Must be. There must be some crossover. Yeah, these are confusing because this also happened with like Boxcar Children, the woman who wrote Boxcar Children wrote like 20 books. And then as soon as you pass like her estate was like, Oh, these books are kind of similar so and they cranked out like 200 More, and they're still coming out. And so I wonder if there's still somebody out there like cranking out Nancy Drew, Hardy boy mystery books. I mean, or maybe this is a Dead series.

Jordan: 1:05:41

Probably. They're at least cranking out like Nancy Drew movies. And I'm pretty sure there was a hardy boy TV series that like came out. It's very like Riverdale, they're doing this whole, like 1950s and 1960s. Resurgence on TV shows where they're like reimagining it in modern day, which it's all right.

Kevin: 1:06:03

You read books for your podcast, how old are the books have to be before you can read them?

Jordan: 1:06:07

It's something like 70 ish years, 70 ish years, like 70 something years?

Alban: 1:06:13

Is it like 70 years after the death of the author?

Jordan: 1:06:17

It's not, or after the most recent like copyright. It's something weird, like, there's certain estates or companies that have renewed the copyright on some things.

Kevin: 1:06:29

Is that a big thing for you? Do you check every year at the beginning of the year? Which books have gone to the public domain?

Jordan: 1:06:33

Yes, yeah. So like last year, Winnie the Pooh dropped, and I was on that so fast. So that was my first episode of 2020 was Winnie the Pooh?

Kevin: 1:06:42

Do you know any big ones coming out this year?

Jordan: 1:06:44

Um, there's a new Sherlock Holmes. I think Agatha Christie has a book coming out. It's kind of weird, it's like the year of mysteries, but nothing very exciting, unfortunately. Because I think it's I believe it's like 1924 is released this year.

Alban: 1:07:00

Yeah, it's copyrights confusing, because it's changed under US law, like multiple times. And so I guess, depending on the year, stuff was introduced, it can be even shorter or longer. So now, a copyright is life of the author plus 70 years. But that's only been in since 1978. It looks like and so for different years, we have different amounts. I'm pretty sure all of the copyright law, this is not legal advice you've gotten not. This is just my memory, almost like all the cases, felt like they involve Disney, like Disney was really like pushing Congress and they're like, Look, you got to change this law, or else and Mickey Mouse is in the public domain. And they would push it that they would change the law. And then somebody's like, what are the Penguin Books or something would be like, No way. Like, this is our whole business. We got all that stuff into the public domain. Yeah, yeah. It's kind of wild. I mean, it's that's way too long.

Jordan: 1:07:57

Well, that sucks, too. Because, you know, I have listeners like all over the world. And so there's people in Canada or Europe, and they're like, oh, please do a little prints. Please do the little prints. And like I can't do a little prints because it's public domain and like Canada, but I live in the US. And so it's not public domain here. It's so weird. If I'm not really certain on the status, like the copyright status, I don't touch it. I don't want anything to do with it.

Kevin: 1:08:22

I will tell you when Louis L'Amour his books start going public domain, I might start a podcast. Those are my favorite books, like all through high school. I read so much Louis, the more you my grandfather. Know what the deal was with those books, but they were awesome. I haven't read one in years and years and years. Looks like the one I liked the most to table in 1955. So it's only 60 something 67 years old. And I have to wait how many years till 75?

Alban: 1:08:48

It depends, I guess on the published date. I don't know Kevin. It's a long time. I don't know if we're gonna be alive. Probably Louis L'Amour dot com will like update the copyright and we're gonna be all no one's ever get.

Jordan: 1:09:01

There's some databases like wiki sources that actually have tables of popular books and when they enter the public domain, so you can like Google like Charlie in the Chocolate Factory plus public domain and someone's like planned it out like they put it in a table.

Kevin: 1:09:17

All right. Coming soon to a podcast app near you Louis L'Amour fiction reading by Kevin.