The Best Buzzsprout Feature That You Probably Overlooked

In this episode, while Alban and Kevin share their biggest takeaways from Podfest Expo, Jordan gets excited about a new podcast conference in the Pacific Northwest. Find out what Buzzsprout feature most people don't notice, hear the newest Spotify conspiracy theory, and get an update on Buzzsprout Subscriptions.

View this episode's DISCUSSION THREAD on Twitter!

PODFEST EXPO
Kevin and Alban are back from Podfest Expo in Orlando! One of their main takeaways? People don't seem to know about one of our most powerful tools, Dynamic Content. 

PODCONF
Jordan is going to the Pacific Northwest's first podcast conference, PodConf, which is happening in Portland on April 29th!

CONSPIRACY: SPOTIFY ADS EDITION
Did Kevin stumble upon Spotify's conspiracy to gain more premium subscribers? Test his theory and let us know @buzzcastpodcast on Twitter!

Listen to Adam Curry on JRE

BUZZSPROUT SUBSCRIPTIONS
Subscriptions are off to a great start! We give a progress report & answer some of the most asked questions. 

Transcript

Kevin: 0:00

As soon as we started talking, they're like, oh my gosh, you're that voice the voice that I hear on Buzzcast

Alban: 0:05

Yeah, like you're the gruff annoyed one.

Jordan: 0:15

So you guys are freshly back from PodFest. How was it?

Kevin: 0:18

Ah freshly back. Gosh, I don't know that that resonates with me. I'm still recovering. This conferences wear you out, at least me, like I it just takes days to recover. Not so much because the scheduler because we're late night party animals or anything like that, but it just being more introverted, and then going all in on like 10 hour days of conversations with people that you're just getting to know is exhilarating. And then so exhausting. Like, I always forget how much that takes out of me. Because you don't really feel it in the moment. There's a lot of energy in the room. And so you're feeding off of that. And you're just going from one person to the next. And everyone wants to have a unique conversation with you. They're super fun. I'm, I'm enjoying my time there. And then I get back, like in my hotel room at the end of the night. And I'm like, I cannot move. Like, I can't look at my phone. I can't turn on the TV. I'm just praying to God that my alarm wakes me up in the morning because I'm so exhausted. It's draining.

Jordan: 1:10

Is it like Podcast Movement, because the only ones I've been to is like Podcast Movement, and everyone is out like, well past midnight, like everybody is. So is it like that? Or is it a little bit more chill?

Alban: 1:22

This was not like tired related to like, oh, we went out and partied or something. This was nonstop two to three people waiting in line for every one of us. Even when we had four or five people at the booth. There's tons of people around the booth, lots of energy, and you're just going conversation to conversation to conversation. And it's a ton of fun, like I said in the moment, but as soon as there's a lull and people go into a talk, you just feel your body. You're like, Oh, I'm really tired. And I had a few like two really good days. And the third day. I was just exhausted like it was it was tough, like having conversations with people. And you want to really be present because they're telling you things. They're important. They're telling about your podcast. They're telling you about their struggles with the show what they're asking for advice. And it was very hard to be present for some of those. So they're tiring, but they are also a ton of fun. We had a really big meet up the first night on Thursday. And we probably had about 100 people there I think oh my gosh. So Jordan, remember how you made the joke about people signing my cast? Yeah, four separate people came up and made the joke. They're like, Hey, can I sign you cast? Yeah. So we had Buzzcast Super listeners were there. It was really fun to talk to them about the show. I always say the numbers are just numbers until you meet people. And then you're like, you like the show a lot. Oh, wow. That's awesome. Because it's so cool to see real people who are doing really good podcasts. Especially when they enjoy you know what we're doing. So it was very cool to meet people.

Kevin: 3:01

Yeah, as a podcaster. That is a really neat experience. There were there's more than one person that walked up to the booth. And as soon as we started talking, they're like, oh my gosh, you're that voice the voice that I hear on Buzzcast.

Alban: 3:12

Like, you're the gruff annoyed one.

Kevin: 3:15

And one person totally took it in a different direction than she was like, You do not look like what I pictured, like, what did you picture? And she's like, I pictured you looking more like Alban and Alban looking more like you. That's like, that's really interesting. I had no idea. And so she had us, you know, swapped?

Jordan: 3:32

Wow.

Alban: 3:32

I don't know, what does that mean?

Kevin: 3:33

I don't know. And then she went on, she was like I'm really into um, she does, she listens to a lot of fiction podcasts. She doesn't listen to a lot of, I don't know, shows like this. And so she's like, I have to do that as part of like, what I enjoy is that I'm creating what these characters look like in my mind. So when I listen to your show, I was doing the same thing. And so I just had a very, very I got a totally wrong. I was like, well, it's not wrong. It's just It can be whatever you want it to be, I can look like whatever you want.

Jordan: 3:56

I'm trying to remember because I mean, back when Travis was on the show, at first, it was really hard for me to differentiate between Alban and Travis and I know that there's a lot of other people that also had a hard time telling who was talking like now in hindsight, when I go back and listen to those older episodes, I'm like, You guys sound nothing alike. But I don't know. It's just it's so funny. When you listen to somebody enough, you get an idea in your head of what they look like. It's really funny. When you finally meet people in person, you're not exactly what you expect.

Alban: 4:23

Yeah, they're always prettier in your mind. I'll be honest, like I think this was with NPR was where I noticed it years listening to Nina Totenberg on NPR talking about the Supreme Court. And I always imagined maybe she was like in her 50s, maybe early 60s, and she's 79 years old.

Jordan: 4:43

Wow.

Alban: 4:43

Ands so when I realized that I was like, I mean, you see a picture of her and it was so shocking to me that I was like, Oh my gosh, Nina Totenberg is like grown up.

Kevin: 4:54

I have a different, I guess, I saw this problem a different way. Like when you listen to someone long enough, you do get curious about what they look like. So it sounds like I'm meeting people and hearing that are some people that just invent that for themselves. And I solve that problem by like going on Twitter or something and finding there. So I'm almost every podcast I listen to, I do get curious about what does this person look like that I've been listening to? And I find the answer to it in like reality. I see their picture. Now I know what they look like, like, that's a real thing. Like, do you listen to somebody enough, you want to know what they look like? It was eye opening to realize that there are there's this whole other segment of people that solve the problem their own way, which is just I will create, in my mind, whatever I want you to look like or whatever I assume you look like.

Alban: 5:32

And what people want you to look like, Kevin, is me. And they want me to like you.

Kevin: 5:35

Just like note, anyone listening, we're podcasters like for a reason.

Alban: 5:39

You're not going to be excited.

Kevin: 5:44

It's very average, maybe, even that may be a stretch.

Alban: 5:47

We'll work up to average.

Kevin: 5:48

So we're going for the personality, great personality.

Alban: 5:52

So I'm going to forget a ton of people, but a few highlights for me; meeting David and Tiphany from Casa Media, we went to dinner with Jim who hosts learn Spanish and Go, super interesting podcast and idea. And then Derek from Pardon the Insurrection. You know, it's fun to talk to people who are listening to the show. They're big fans. And they had so many good insights about Buzzcast, but also about Buzzsprout as a whole. So that was probably my favorite part, the high point for PodFest for me.

Kevin: 6:26

I think it would be good if we can take just a second here. And I'll share first and then maybe Alban can share afterwards. But there were some themes in the conversations that we had. And so it's always good for us, because we try to write those down, identify them as a team afterward and figure out like, what are we not doing a good job of educating people who use Buzzsprout? And love Buzzsprout? What are we missing in our messaging? So the big one for me was around dynamic content. And so there was a lot of people who came up like they have this specific need, and they're wondering, you know, what they can do to solve it? And the answer was very clearly dynamic content. And I was shocked that they didn't understand not only was this tool available, but that it could serve them the purpose and solve the problem that they were trying to solve, like, super easily. And so like, let's talk about dynamic content for just one second. The idea behind dynamic content is it gives you the ability to very quickly and easily drop messages right now, it's pre roll post roll only into all of your existing podcast episodes. And so there was somebody who was saying, like, I think there are people here at this conference, for example, they're trying to build community, there's like, there's probably people here at this conference who listen to my podcasts, because they talked about industry stuff, and they're like, but how would I ever know who they are? Because I don't know who my listeners are really well. And so we talked about social stuff and connecting with them, email newsletters, you know, getting a Twitter account, all that kind of stuff. And I was like, but you know, if you're coming to this conference, why didn't you just put some dynamic content in front of all your episodes, you know, a couple of weeks leading up to the conference and say, Hey, I'm going to be here. And so maybe we can meet up at this place at this time. I'd love to connect with my audience, right? What are you talking about? What is this dynamic content thing, I'm like, record a little 32nd thing that say, I'm going to be in PodFest in Orlando, if you're going, I would love to meet you. And I will be here at this time. record that you upload it, you apply it as a pre roll to all your episodes, just sort it for the two weeks. And then after the conference, take it off. So I showed them how to do that. And they were like falling over. They were like, if I learned nothing else from the conference, this was like worth me coming here. That is amazing. And so we are missing the boat a little bit. I'm making sure everybody understands all the tools and power and functionality that's within Buzzsprout. But that was a theme, I think, three, four or five different people each day were coming up to me, and dynamic content was a solution. So I just wanted to throw that out there.

Jordan: 8:30

Every year I do for Poetry Month listener poetry. And so I have to do like a call to action for listeners submit their poetry for me to read on a episode. And I use dynamic content for that every single year. And it works like a charm. Like I get tons and tons of submissions, because I'm just able to like, slap it into the beginning of every single episode. And then when that call for submissions is over, I can just pick it out. And it's fantastic. It works.

Kevin: 8:54

We started brainstorming ideas like whether it be something new, that you're promoting something that you're going to even just like a holiday greeting, or hey, doing this listener support stuff. Now you can subscribe and return value if you're receiving value, like whatever you want to use it for. There's so many use cases. And so it's just like a matter of like disciplining yourself to every once in a while ask yourself that question of is there something that I want my audience to know? And could dynamic content be a solution to that, like, I don't necessarily want to go back and edit a whole bunch of episodes to get that in there. It's not worth that. And it's more timely than like just putting it in this one episode that people are just going to hear for this one week and then move pass. And it's like anything that falls into this category, like dynamic content is a perfect solution for that. So Alvin, did you have any themes and people you were talking to?

Alban: 9:37

I mean, the one that I came away with, and I pitched it internally was dynamic content, because I had the same experience. I think mine mostly started with talking to people about Buzzsprout subscriptions, where they were like, Okay, I'd love to start one. But how do I promote it? And I'd say, Well, first I would put it in your episode footer. And they'd go, okay, yeah, I know about that. And they'd say, and then I'd record a little call to action and use dynamic content to drop it into all your episodes. And I'm like, Well, I'm not editing them all. So I had the same exact conversation. And then the other one I was surprised by was the amount of people that were using magic mastering that were like pro level editors already. So there's at least one person who did mastering for a job and was like, I still run it through magic mastering and they're like, you still are finding some stuff that and it sounds better. And then I can so I keep improving my own workflow. But there was like, I was surprised that there was somebody who understood mastering better than I do, which is not too hard. But they were like, Oh, I'm still using this. It's still providing value for me.

Kevin: 10:41

Yeah, I talked to somebody in a similar vein, who just given up like they were getting really good at mastering, and then they stumbled upon magic mastering ran it for a test episode, it sounded great. And they're like, fantastic. I don't have to continue investing time and getting better at mastering myself, because this will do it for me. And so that was encouraging. There was somebody that Tom was talking to, it might have been the same person you were talking to it sounds similar, but they were like a professional editor. And they were just a little bit defeated. They're like, I keep trying to master it. So it sounds perfectly and then Gosh, every time I upload it, it still comes back better. And they're like, I keep losing to this algorithm. And it's like, well, it's a fun challenge. But maybe there's more important things for you to spend your time doing. Just let the computer do with computer stuff that they're good at. And then we do like the editing and the storytelling and the crafting, focus more on that.

Alban: 11:26

Yeah, the conferences are always a wonderful spot to go and meet people, but also kind of craft your message and figure out what is working for people. What isn't, I mean, Podcast Movement last year, the thing I walked away with was man, people really want custom date ranges for their stats. And so we added that the next cycle, and then everyone's like, Oh, great, that's awesome. Perfect. And then this time at pod fest, not a single person asked about custom date ranges. So thanks to everybody who came up and chatted with us at the booth. We really appreciate it. And thank you to the PodFest team for putting on a conference.

Jordan: 12:01

Yeah. And I didn't go to Podfest because it's all the way down in Florida. And I'm clear up here in the Pacific Northwest and we never get podcast conferences. It's It's so weird that there's never podcast conferences in the Pacific Northwest. Well, Pat Cheung from Podinbox, he decided to finally put a podcast conference in Portland. So we finally got one up here in our corner of the world. What happened was he joined the like a local podcast meetup group in Portland. And he realized that they used to do a thing that they called unconference. And it was pre COVID. And then when the pandemic happened, you know, it just kind of fell apart. And they quit doing that. So he's trying to revive that. And he teamed up with Claire Giovino, and they have created PodConf. They're really trying to step away from the mega conferences, you know, like Podfest, or Podcast Movement, where it's almost like overwhelming, you know, you guys were talking about how, at the end of the day, you were just like beat, you know, it's just exhausting to be around like that many people all day, every day. And it's kind of like overwhelming. And this one, it's only one day long. And it's more intimate. They're capping, like how many people can attend. And I love this, because instead of doing like these big sessions, what they're doing is they're called attendee lead circles. And I think it's more of like a discussion. And so it's gonna be a little bit more interactive. And that way you can ask more questions, you can discuss certain things, I think there might be like more of like a workshop kind of element to it. So it's gonna be really nice, no expo hall. So it's just totally focused on the indie creator and making those connections together.

Alban: 13:40

That's awesome. They're trying a few interesting things, you know, no expo hall and not doing as many talks. I know a lot of people when we were taking people to Podfest this year, wrote me and we're like, Oh, I'm not seeing a ton of talks I want to go to is it still worth it. And I feel bad for say this to for everybody who does go and speak at conferences, including Tom who spoke at Podfest. But I said, I've only been to maybe one or two conferences ever, that I thought I got the value from the talks. And that's not a date on conferences or conference speakers. It's most of the value is the people you meet and the connections you make, and getting to talk to somebody who's doing a similar type of work or has a similar hobby. So going to like an SEO conference, and just picking people's brains and getting like honest assessments of where you are in the industry and how well you're performing where there's room for growth. Like just being able to go be with people, it's a little bit easier to tell what's real and what's fake in real life than it is on a message board or something. So I love going to conferences. I'm a huge proponent. And I would say if you're up with the Pacific Northwest, don't be scared off by the fact that this is different, that there's not going to be big keynote speakers with big names because you can watch all those on YouTube for free. The conference, the thing that you're gonna get is the community and the connections and getting to talk to other people who are going through the same thing as you. You know, every year I go to Podcast Movement, I walk away with a friend that I know now for years, and so highly recommend it. Go check out some conferences.

Jordan: 15:16

I know so many people that have gotten their jobs in the podcasting industry, because they attended conferences, and they made connections and built like relationships and stuff. It's really cool. And I'll be there, I'm actually going to be leading one of those circles, talking and hanging out with people. And it's gonna be really fun. So very cool. Yeah.

Kevin: 15:35

All right. Here's an idea for Pat. I don't know if Pat listens to the show. But he should. I'm into the stuff that Pat does, Podinbox is a very cool solution. So unsolicited advice, we attended a podcast conference from Pat Flynn a few years ago, Pat does Smart Passive Income amongst a bunch of other cool stuff, his his conference, he also had this idea of doing no Expo Hall, because he didn't want people getting like pushed and sold on stuff that he wasn't all in on himself. And so what he decided to do instead was just invite a few select companies to come and run what he called the Smart Bar, because Smart Passive Income like branding thing, but it's, the idea was kind of like a genius bar to Apple store or something like that. Everyone who was invited Buzzsprout included, the idea was like, you're not there to sell your wares, you're there to help people who already use your solution, or might be looking for a solution like yours, and you have my recommendation behind you. And so it was invite only like vendors. And I think there was maybe four or six of us that were there, you had to be invited. And it wasn't going to be a big ROI. So it wasn't Pat trying to make money off of his vendors, it was just him giving an opportunity of saying, Hey, here's a product I believe in. I know some people are going to be at the conference user service, you can meet him in person, but I really want you to be there to serve them and help them. And so we sent out a very small team to do exactly that. And it was a great connection point, it wouldn't have been worth it for us to spend a whole lot of money to go out there and try to sell because the sales opportunity didn't exist and it didn't fit the vibe of what Pat wanted. So Pat Cheung, not Pat Flynn, if you're interested, or concerned about the same thing like it messing up the vibe of your conference, there may be another way to get some vendors there from companies that you really like and want to support and serve your audience for this conference at the same time. I thought that was a great experience.

Jordan: 17:13

So if you want to attend PodConf in Portland, the early bird registration is $25. And we will link to it in the show notes.

Kevin: 17:25

I have a conspiracy theory possibly about Spotify.

Alban: 17:28

"Possibly" conspiracy theories?

Jordan: 17:30

Are they the same as Alban's conspiracy theory, or is

Alban: 17:30

My conspiracy theory was I really don't feel like a it different? conspiracy theory, I think is just accurate. Like Spotify announced, hey, we do allow for paid promotion inside of our most popular playlists. And then we started seeing podcasts that were you know, hosted by megaphone we're getting special promotion. I don't feel like there's too much of a conspiracy theory.

Kevin: 17:52

Alright. Well, let me tell you, I think a good conspiracy theory has like a decent amount of evidence to back it up.

Alban: 17:57

No

Kevin: 17:58

Mine does not. Mine does not at all. Mine has like, once like I listened once, and I came up with this theory. Okay. Okay. So as everyone knows, who listens to the show, I don't load up that Spotify app on my phone very often, it still lives there. Because every once in a while, I need to jump into Spotify for something. And this past weekend, we had one of these cases. Okay. So Adam Curry who I know and love, and he runs, he's one of the two guys Adam and Dave do the Podcast Namespace Project and Podcast Index, fan of the show. I'm a fan of their show. I don't know if he's a fan of our show. So I'm a fan of that show. And we follow the project. And Buzzsprout has always been a big supporter of the Podcast Namespace Project. So I'm listening to their show on Friday. And Adam says that he was just on the Joe Rogan show this week. So I of course want to listen to that interview that conversation and where's the only place you can listen to Joe Rogan? Spotify. So I load up Spotify. Now, before I do that I'm listening to Dave and Adam talk about his experience on Spotify. And Adam is saying he's like the spider understand why people like how this is a good deal for Joe. Because he was listening back to his interview or maybe some other interviews from Joe Rogan podcast. He's like every 10 minutes. It just boom, cuts off in the middle of the conversation and goes and plays an ad and then jumps right back in the conversation. He's like, this is a terrible experience. I don't understand why Joe was like this for his show. Now, on top of that, Adam says, and I'm a paying subscriber, he pays them the $15 a month or whatever to be Spotify Premium. And I'm like, oh gosh, if that's his experience being Spotify Premium. What's it gonna be like for me? I don't pay Spotify. So I go ahead and I looked up Spotify. Find the Joe Rogan podcast, find the episode with Adam curry. It's like not the newest but you know, a day or two old and I started listening. It's three hours. The conversation is three hours. Likely I'm on a long road trip. So I put a 1.5x Sorry Adam, I know you don't love that. But I put it 1.5x And like an hour and a half till I get home this is about gonna hit But where I need to be listened to the entire thing? Not one ad. I've never heard one ad.

Jordan: 20:07

You're kidding.

Kevin: 20:08

Not kidding.

Alban: 20:10

So it's the conspiracy theory that you think they're limiting the number of ads and podcasts to get you to subscribe. And then as you subscribe, and they get more data about you, they start ramping up the ads slowly?

Kevin: 20:21

That could be it. I mean, you know, I don't want to tell people what the thing but oh my gosh, not one ad. It's a conspiracy theory. So I mean, in order to test this, what we're going to have to do is we're gonna have to get a whole bunch of Buzzcast listeners out there to go ahead and cancel their Spotify Premium. Then see if the ad experience is different. Now that's the easiest, that's the easiest thing to do. Everyone listening, cancel your Spotify Premium, and then go back and listen to see if it changes.

Alban: 20:48

Why don't I just go listen to the one episode and see if they do the every 10 minute ad? Or if maybe it was a little bit of an over exaggeration by Adam, do you think that's also possible?

Jordan: 21:03

I mean, but even if it was an over exaggeration, like let's say that they had an ad every, like 30 minutes or something like that. Kevin just listened to three hours. And there was not a single ad.

Kevin: 21:12

Not a single ad. Now I don't know if it's different. I was driving in the car. So I was like in Spotify goes, no, it's like car mode. There was like no cover art. There was no show notes. There was nothing. I was like, this is terrible podcast player, I can't see anything. But then I realized I was in car mode. So I clicked that off. When I clicked it off, then video popped up. And I'm like, that doesn't help me either. I can't watch a video while I'm driving the car. So then I clicked with car mode. So then I tried to get back in the car mode, and I couldn't figure out how to get back in the car mode. I'm like, This is ridiculous. So I just put my I locked my phone. So the screen went off. And I just set my phone down and did safe driving for the next hour and a half and listen. So I don't know if there's a difference between like when you're in car mode, or if you're watching the video if they have like more of a tendency to break in with ads or not. I don't know anything about Spotify. What I know is that Adam said his experience as a Spotify Premium listener is that he gets ads every 10 minutes and my experience as a somebody driving the car with your phone lock listening, the audio only not paying for Spotify Premium is I got no ads.

Jordan: 22:13

I mean, I'm a paying Spotify subscriber. And I listened to a lot of the podcasts that you know, they snatched up those studios, so like Parcast, Gimlet, things like that. And I noticed that I do get a lot of ads when I listen to those podcasts. And it's the thing where like, Spotify pops up the ad because it's weird, because they don't do chapter markers, right. But they will pop the ad up. And it'll have like the image of the advertiser. And they'll have like the thing and I can actually like skip the ad. But it struck me as weird that a podcast would have that on Spotify. I don't know how to explain it. Like, what am I trying to say here? They don't have chapter markers. So like, how is that possible? That's what I'm trying to say.

Kevin: 22:55

And my thought was, is similar to kind of Alban's idea of what my conspiracy would be. It's in the same ballpark anyway, it's that I think in this could be smart thinking is that maybe what they want to do is convince people that Spotify is a great listening experience. And they're more concerned about convincing the person who's not paying them yet of that. And so I'm not paying them yet. So I'm a potential customer. And so they want to make my experience as good as possible. So if I'm starting to listen to podcasts, and Spotify, they just want that to be an amazing experience. Isn't this so great to listen to podcasts and Spotify, that it just becomes a habit for me, that's where I go to listen to podcasts. And then once it becomes a habit, I'm more likely to be a paying customer. Once I pay them. They're like we got them locked in habits are formed. We are now their daily driver for music slash podcasts, load them up with that. That was my conspiracy theory.

Alban: 23:42

I mean, that could be the that could be the conspiracy. It would be a real bummer, though. If that was your experience that you ended up you know, upgrading and they started getting more ads kind of reminds me of like Netflix right now launching their ads tier, Disney plus is launching an ads teir, like there's ads, but there's also you pay. I understand that's how cable used to work. And I know there's lots of things that work this way. But there's something in me that's like, the minute that I upgrade, I start paying a real amount of money every month, I really don't want to see ads that I don't want my time to be spent watching which ads are like, I love YouTube premium. Because those ads are like they used to put a couple ads in and then I went oh, I'm on YouTube a lot. Also for work. I'll just pay the like 10 to 12 bucks a month. Awesome. And if all of a sudden Netflix started putting ads in or Spotify with putting a bunch of extra ads in, I would be seriously considering Okay, I think it's time to move on to something else. I'm going to pay somebody else because I don't want to have both experiences like I pay you with my money and my attention.

Kevin: 24:43

Right? Well, we know that's how it works for music. Because the Spotify app is very limited on the music side. When you're a free customer. I don't think you can just queue up whatever song you want. You can like choose a song and then play music that's similar to that and then maybe the song you were looking for will come up at some point. You can only skip a certain number of songs until you have to listen to an ad. And I get all that. So once you get frustrated enough with that experience, then you're going to upgrade search for whatever you want play for whatever you want. Without ads, I think that's what they're pitching. But for podcasting, it seems to be a different experience.

Alban: 25:15

Now, do you think some of this is just the economics of Spotify lies how they have addressed podcasting, like they went in, you spent $200 million, or whatever to get Joe Rogan on your platform, your whole goal is to bring a bunch of podcast listeners on to Spotify. But now you've kind of like we want to make some of that money back. And this is a audience that's really engaged, let's get a couple of GEICO commercials in there to like, at least make the money not look as bad, you know, up the chain in podcasting. And it would make more sense for the ones that specifically that are like fully owned by Spotify that are exclusives, that some of which have been under threat of maybe getting canceled if they don't get big enough, like Spotify, the way they're going to monetize those shows, is going to be through ads, and so I can get it for their side. Like we paid all this money to the hosts, the creators, everybody involved, we need to make it back through advertisements.

Kevin: 26:09

Yeah, I totally get it. My theory here is that there, it's a little bit of a again, depends on how you look at it maybe a really smart way to build their business or maybe kind of underhanded sneaky way of like we're trying to convince you to pay but then as soon as you pay, the experience gets worse.

Alban: 26:24

How frustrating would it be if you ended up using Apple Music for your music, and then Spotify for your podcasting, just so that you could get like the better experience with places, and yet you're using the subpar app of both versions, like Apple podcasts is a better podcast to get. But Spotify is definitely the better music app. And now your end of the worst of both worlds?

Kevin: 26:46

Well, let me throw out one more data point for anybody who wants to investigate this conspiracy theory. I've also taken the time, it was a little bit of a time investment to dig through the Spotify app. And I think I had actually moved desktop at some point to complete this fully. But I've gone in an empty box, I can check to make sure that Spotify does not have my permission to track my listening habits or, you know, pull my data with third parties or whatever else they're doing. I've turned all those things off. And so I may have limited Spotify as like permission based marketing, enough on my profile, that they just couldn't find an ad for me, in the three hours that I was listening. They're just like, we don't know enough about this guy that serve them an ad. So that's possible too.

Alban: 27:24

This total anonymous person who's never paid us any money. They're like, this guy is completely useless. Nobody wants to connect with him. Nobody wants to serve Him and ash.

Kevin: 27:35

But as extreme as I can be about that, I have to imagine that Adam curry is 10 times more extreme. Like he probably has done all that stuff. And he was probably also listening through a VPN on a burner phone, like from an undisclosed location. I don't think our experiences should be that different. But for some reason they were

Jordan: 27:53

Adam Curry is suddenly like Jack Ryan.

Kevin: 27:58

Like he totally is. Every time like if you're hanging out with in person, like he'll take a phone call on his cell. And then as soon as he's done with the call, he pulls the battery out and the SIM card and smashes it on the ground. Like doesn't get to know I'm kidding.

Jordan: 28:07

Like nobody's seen Adam Curry and DB Cooper in the same room.

Kevin: 28:12

So awesome guy, awesome experience wanted to put that out there. I think we need you know, someone to pick up this mantle and go investigate figure out what is going on with the Spotify Premium experience for podcast listening.

Alban: 28:26

We launched Buzzsprout subscriptions. And we are on track probably by the time that this is out over 1000 Buzzsprout podcasters will have launched a subscription for their podcasts. Wow, I think it looks like about 15% of those are offering premium content and 85% are doing recurring support. And it's really exciting to see, we actually have like an internal leaderboard of all the podcasts and we could see, you know, people getting new subscriptions and moving up and people turning it on Buzzcast. We were there for like the first day, because we turned it on like three weeks before anyone else. Unfortunately, we have already been passed over quite a few times. So we're dropping the leaderboard fast. But we appreciate everybody who's subscribed and supported this show.

Jordan: 29:12

Just from feedback in the community and stuff like that. I think that there has been a little bit of confusion about the Buzzsprout subscriptions having two models for subscriptions.

Kevin: 29:23

Yeah, we spent a lot of time in the last episode introducing the concept of Buzzsprout subscriptions. And I think we spent the majority of the time talking about recurring support, right, we didn't really get into the premium episode stuff. And so let me let me start with the premium episode stuff because this is the most common thing that people think about when they think about a podcast subscription. Buzzsprout subscriptions is that for sure. But it also has that other part the recurring support part that we talked about more in depth last week. That's the part that everybody should turn on, regardless of where they are in their show.

Jordan: 29:53

And the recurring support. Just like for a refresher, it's basically like your listeners pledging $1 amount To support the show without receiving any, like benefits, right?

Kevin: 30:04

Well, I would say additional benefit. So the way that I like to think about it in the way I just talked about it a lot at pod fest is that anybody who's listening to your show, like on a regular basis, they're receiving something from you already, they're receiving some level of value, right? Because they continue to tune in. And so what you want to do is really speak to those people and say, Hey, if you listen to this show on a regular basis, that says to me that you're receiving some value from it. And that's great, because that's my intention of putting this content out there that it touches you, it moves you it entertains you in some way that makes your life better. And so if for the people who would like to return some value back to me, so I can continue doing this stuff and creating this great content, I've now have a really easy way for you to do that. There's a link in the show notes, or pointing to your Buzzsprout page or whoever you want to direct them to be able to very easily support you on a recurring basis, the concept of just dropping somebody like a one time payment, there's nothing especially wrong with that. But really, what you want is you're gonna do your show every week. So why can't you support me like on a regular basis as well. And so that is what the subscription model here is that we embraced is that there should be an opportunity for those people who want to return value to do it on a regular basis, just like you push out content on a regular basis. And so it's not really a donation, you're not like begging for money, it's not a tip, it's just like you're receiving something of value. And you might want to return that. And if that's if you connect with that message, then here's a way for you to do it. And so that is the listener support side.

Alban: 31:22

And you get to select, like how much you want to give. Because I know there were periods of my life where $1 or two was a stretch, and there's no way I was going to be giving more than $1 or two, even to my favorite podcast, like it was very expensive for me to buy media. And now I'm fortunate enough to be in a different spot where I can support my favorite pieces of media that I consume each month. And for me, a lot of those are podcasts. And they're going to put out really cool content and put a lot of effort into making it and I'm going to spend three, four hours of my time a month listening to some of my favorite shows, why wouldn't I give them a few dollars to support them, you know, it's exciting to be able to partner with the people who are making the content, I think is really valuable, that's good for the world, it's good for me, you know, you could support and vote for the things that you like, versus, you know, the content that, you know, is everywhere else that I don't find a lot of value from, right.

Kevin: 32:17

And that equation is different for everybody. I mean, there's a lot of factors, right like Alban was just talking about this people are gonna be in different stages of their lives in terms of how much expendable income they have available to them at any given moment. But it's also like, think about the value side, if you're listening to a podcast, and you're using advice from that podcast to improve your business, it could be worth, you know, 100x, what it is to somebody who's just tuning in to figure out, like, because they find you funny or entertaining. And so if you're tuning into the podcast, and you're getting a few laughs, that might be worth$1 or two a month, if you're tuning into this podcast, it's completely changing the direction of your business. And now your business is making 10x what it was, before you started taking it and implementing this advice, it might be worth hundreds or 1000s of dollars to you every month to be able to make sure this content stays on. And so what you want to do is give people the ability to decide for themselves, what value are you getting? And then challenge them, would you consider returning some of that value to me, so I can continue to do this.

Alban: 33:06

This happens all the time where people like Mark something up, and they're like, Oh, it's$1,000 course, but I'll give it to you for like 200 bucks. And in our minds, because they've been anchored to the higher price, we're like, Ooh, that's a good deal. But really, you don't know what's in the course yet. And yet, you're gonna give $200 for this thing, just because someone claimed it was worth 1000. The awesome thing about the value for value model, and what we're doing with listener support is find out what it's worth, and then decide what you're going to pay. There's so many marketing books I've read that were completely useless. I don't know what they cost, I don't remember the cost of the book. But I do know the cost of my time, the cost of the book got us zero value. There is one in particular that I'm confident has led to like hundreds of 1000s of dollars of value for Buzzsprout. Ed. So if I were to now be able to say, whoo, what's the value of me having read that book? Yeah, at least 10 grand, I would have paid for that book, it would have been a positive ROI to pay $10,000 for one book, you know, for them to say it's, you know, 16 bucks, and a big majority of people don't get anything, but some people get a lot of value for value says, hey, whatever, like when you're done, tell us what you think it's worth. And so Wouldn't your favorite podcasts, the ones you really love the most your favorite TV show? Wouldn't you rather direct more of your budget for spending on media direct it not just to all the HGTV crap, unless there's something wrong with that. It direct it to what you think is valuable. And let's get more of that in the world.

Kevin: 34:39

So we did want to talk a little bit more about the premium content offering so this is the other option that's available when you set up a subscription with the Buzzsprout which is premium content and that is you saying specifically No. I'm gonna go above and beyond what I normally do and I'm going to create specific content that I want to sell. And for this stuff, I am going to put a minimum value on so if you want above and beyond if you want special On this episodes, we're just calling premium content that you can sell through Buzzsprout subscriptions as well. And the only difference there is you set a minimum price. So when you're setting up recurring support, there's no option to set a minimum price. It's like you just give people the ability to return whatever value they want. And with premium content, you set a minimum price for that. But Buzzsprout subscriptions automatically has baked into it, the ability for them to get more. So let's just take Jordan's Dreamful podcast as an example here, she may say that she's going to do some premium episodes. And if you want to unlock those, and listen to them, the minimum that you need to pay in order to do that is $5 a month. And then once you do, you'll have those additional episodes unlocked and playable in whatever listening app that you want. But when you're checking out to buy that premium content at $5 a month, there is another option that says if you'd like to support the Creator, by giving them a little bit more, you can do that as well. So they're kind of intertwined. The ideas behind them the concepts behind both of these things is that you always we always present the option for whoever's making the purchase to give above and beyond. But with premium content, there is a minimum price and with the recurring support donation, there's not that's the big difference.

Jordan: 36:04

Yeah, with the I think I've had a couple people that do the higher option. I know for a fact my mom, max it out to the$9 tier. Love moms. Yeah, you gotta love moms. Yeah, my mom hopped on the Buzzsprout subscriptions bandwagon real quick. And she went up to the I think it was like $9 is the highest you can go. So thanks, mom. But it was really cool. Because the other morning, I mean, I woke up. And every morning, when I wake up, I just grabbed my phone and checked my email, and I opened up my email, and I'm like laying in bed. And like the only emails that fit within my screen was all Buzzsprout subscriptions, it was just like Boo, boo, boo, boo, boom. So I, I've been really loving this. I think this might be my favorite feature we've done. That is great. Yeah, it's really cool.

Kevin: 36:50

It's a little different than the other options that are out there. So there are other services out there to allow that allow you to monetize your podcast, you know, around the subscription concept. So not only do we want to change the subscription methodology, and make it a little bit of our own and embrace some of these concepts that we're more excited about. But we also have the opportunity being the hosting platform that you're hosting your podcast on, to make it a little bit more streamlined, a little bit more convenient, not only for you as the podcaster. But also, you know, for your listener who's going to support you in this way, or subscribe to your premium content. And so I think all that stuff is can work together. To make it a little bit more, I think we got a little bit of a leg up when it comes to competing with some of those other subscription services in terms of the convenience for people during the checkout process. Like I don't like thinking about it as an impulse purchase. But I do like the idea of like optimizing the experience, I just want to return some value to this trader, I just want to buy this premium episode. And it shouldn't be difficult to do that shouldn't be a stumbling block, I shouldn't get halfway through that process and then have to go download another app or sort through five different tiers and figure out which one is right for me. It's like I know, I know, I just want to give Jordan $5. You know, she posted this premium episode, I'm excited about I read the title of it, my kid wants to listen to it, I want to listen to it before I go to bed. Just let me check out quickly because I want to get in bed and listen and go to sleep. And so streamlining and optimizing it making it easy. Those are the things that we prioritized over like breadth of features and being able to build out a million different tiers and a million different options. Like, I'm not saying that we don't have room to grow and to improve this stuff down the road. But we focused on what we thought was most important. And that was giving your audience a clear, simple connection point and a streamlined checkout process. And you as the creator, to be able to set this up quickly without having to give it a million thoughts and sort through a million options, like just get it going.

Jordan: 38:34

And it streamlined for both the podcaster and listener, you know, I just want to like get that bonus episode and like move on with my day. And that's the thing is like as a podcaster. It's so hard to get people to go to these sites, you have to stop what you're doing, open up the website, and then like make an account on this thing. And then like it's not that you don't have to do that at all, you just click like the link, you check out. It's done. It's also streamlined for the podcaster. Because it's all within the Buzzsprout dashboard. It's all there. So I just go about my day. As usual, I just upload my episode, do a little checkbox that subscriber only done like, that's all I have to do. And it's amazing. It's so much easier than going through like three different websites I'd forget to upload on like Super Cast, but then like I would upload on Patreon or like vice versa. It was just all over the place. And I couldn't keep anything straight.

Alban: 39:21

There's one podcast that launched, they started marking some of their episodes is premium content, and they get about 300 plays per episode on their normal episodes on their normal episodes. It's multiple times a week they're uploading 300 plays, how many subscribers and how much money are they making? Do you guess?

Jordan: 39:41

Okay, 300 plays my assumption would be that'd be like one or two people have subscribed.

Kevin: 39:48

I'm going to like lock in at the 1% number. So I would say three, three supporters at the minimum whatever. $3 Each and $9

Jordan: 39:55

And it just launched so I feel like that's fair. Yeah, yeah.

Alban: 39:59

It's all, so this is the person I'm picking out. So this is definitely a overachiever. They went ahead and just off the bat were like, it's $10 a month minimum for the premium content. So they said, This is really good. And they already have 16 people. So $161 a month from 300 people who are listening to the podcast that, um, the grand scheme of things, you know, it's not even a top, I think it's like maybe top 10%, but not top few percent podcast, wow, doing well, must be doing really good content. But this is who Buzzsprout subscriptions are made for somebody who has a deep connection to their audience, their audience loves this thing. This is what I really enjoy. And they say, Hey, if you really, really love it, $10 a month to get the bonus content, add 16 people within I mean, they couldn't have had it on more than like a week, have said, Oh, that guy, man. So I saw this one going up the name caught my eyes. So hopefully, I'll be able to do a little bit more of a case study for our next episode.

Jordan: 40:59

Yeah, that'd be cool. I think conversely, I think that there was an issue with somebody who was like, Oh, this premium content option is amazing. And they went and paywall their entire back catalogue, which I think can backfire.

Alban: 41:14

It's a strategy.

Jordan: 41:15

It's a strategy.

Kevin: 41:18

I don't think we've ever advocated for that strategy.

Jordan: 41:20

No, he went for it, though. And I think that it was a good experiment in maybe what not to do necessarily, is just paywall all of your stuff immediately. Because I mean, the downloads dropped. But it's because you don't have like all these people listening. I mean,

Kevin: 41:37

there may be a few podcasts in the world that could get away with something like that, I think it'd be very rare, it'd be very rare, I would not recommend that strategy for the vast majority of people.

Alban: 41:46

Especially when you're a smaller show, because the whole goal is I'm trying to provide as much value for free to grow the show, because I think the market for this podcast is way bigger than I'm reaching. When you pay well, everything, it's gonna be much harder to grow. And you're also going to have to put in a lot of effort to earn the money that you're actually getting from the handful of people who will subscribe. So I'm going to be interested over the next few months to really watch these leaderboards, who's doing well, who's not, and then start talking to podcasters. So that we can pull out the best practices. Because premium content, lots of people have been doing it with supercast, they've been doing it with Patreon for a while. Their Spotify, Apple podcast subscriptions, there's lots of different ways to do premium content. And I'm now going to be interested being a little bit more on the data side for us to be able to dig in a little more and figure out what works and what doesn't. I love seeing something like this one jump out already, you know, 300 listens per episode, and already making$161. That's really, really cool.

Jordan: 42:53

That's amazing. With the premium content, like you know, I remember when we went to Podcast Movement in Nashville, I was a little bit bummed out because I went to the session. And it was this person saying like how they made like six figures like their first year with like, premium content, right? And I was like, oh, that sounds fascinating. Yeah, let's go listen to that. And it was a panel and it was this guy who was like, oh, yeah, you know, we just like we started our podcast and put it behind a paywall. And then we launched and we had all these subscribers. And it was just like, there's something not adding up. And it turned out that he was like, already pretty famous. So I think that there's kind of like a romanticizing of paywall and all your content, and then all these people are going to come because they want to hear it. But that's not really necessarily the case, unless you already have like a really solid audience. But I am super excited to see what benefits people are offering the creative ways in which they're using it. And kind of figuring that out. And yeah, we should do like an entire episode on that, honestly.

Kevin: 43:56

I mean, if you are Tony Robbins, or Gary Vaynerchuk, or Seth Godin, could you create a podcast and put it all behind the paywall, and still launch with a pretty successful show right off the bat? Yes, absolutely. But that didn't come for free. They spent a lot of time curating and building a following before they built enough trust with enough people that those people know that whatever they put out with their name on it is going to be high quality and worth whatever they're charging or more. And so if you don't have that following, if you haven't built that trust, and you're still trying to build that trust and create that following through a podcast is your first thing, then you have to take your best stuff and put it out there for free. You take the stuff that is most valuable to the most people and you give it away for free. And then you say hey, there's some more nuanced knowledge that I have that might not be as applicable to everybody. But it's worth it. If you only get one takeaway from this bonus content that's worth five bucks a month, that's worth 10 bucks a month. It's gonna make your life so much better. You're gonna laugh so much harder. It's gonna change your business. It's gonna change how you parent it's going to change how you run your homeschool class, whatever it is that you're doing. The biggest and best stuff goes out for free to everybody, you build your following you build your audience, you build trust. And then you say, here's some extra stuff. If you want to go even deeper with me, that has a price on it if you want more, but I've already built the trust and the following with all the great stuff for free. transition right into premium content if you want to do that anytime. Also, you can go the other way. So if you start doing premium content for a little while, and you've realized that the workflow is too much, creating these episodes is too much of a burden on me, and I'm getting enough people who just want to support me regardless of whether it needs bonus episodes or not. You can get flipped right back to the other model, too.

Jordan: 45:43

We have a new stinger submission from Backseat Coach's Podcast and they said at Buzzcast podcast, I may have gone a bit overboard but it's may now and I had a blast making it so no harm no foul. It's unusable unlistenable.

Alban: 45:57

I listened to this right as soon as they tweeted it. And I have been in this spot so many times the like creative endeavor where you get deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole and then you're like, I may be too far this way. Nobody would like Maybe nobody's gonna want this is how I felt when we did the podcast guest video and I was cracking let's do this.

Jordan: 46:19

Let's see how deep the rabbit hole goes. All right.

Alban: 46:40

You cut that a lot.

Kevin: 46:42

Oh my gosh. You're swinging the pendulum the other way. People before thought that our little buzzboost jingles were too much. This is just like you had no idea. We can go so much further.

Alban: 46:55

Thank you for submitting the buzzboost jingle, Backseat Coach's Podcast. We appreciate it. If anybody has a jingle that they want to give us for the next one. Just reach out to us at Buzzcast podcast on Twitter.

Jordan: 47:09

Alright, let's kick things off with our newest Buzzsprout subscribers. We have Dr. Troy Walls Hausa Dictionary oh I really hope I'm saying that right. And Derek Knight. Thanks for subscribing on Buzzsprout.

Kevin: 47:22

Genebean has sent us three separate boosts of 1337 sets each. And I'm going to summarize all three together here. It says I really dislike what Spotify is doing in the podcast ecosystem. The mentioned shenanigans are one of the reasons I don't publish there. So thanks for sharing that Genebean also mentioned Buzzsprout subscriptions as an alternative to buy me a coffee is missing the feature to do a one off donation, I will just add some commentary here. That means absolutely something that we're considering. And we just want to focus on what we felt was most important to bring to market first. So that's certainly on the table. And then the sharing of backtracks that you mentioned helped make a case for op three in its public nature. I agree. I think that more people are actually open to sharing their podcasts that then then maybe I don't know, public perception, you know, is assumed otherwise, like on YouTube, you don't get a chance just your views are visible by default. But in podcasting, it's different than that. So yeah, there might be life there for op three in terms of giving people the option to share their podcasts. That's an open way. And maybe a lot of people do that. So thanks for the feedback gene being keep podcasting

Alban: 48:21

1001 Satoshis from James Cridland, the editor of Podnews.net. I agree this Spotify is doing a [censored] thing. I also think listeners come first, which is where my thoughts are from, and which have always been from I tested them in pod news weekly review and then work from Buzzsprout, which is good agree that dynamic ads won't work, though. And there's a coding expense. So James wrote that really good article about whether or not we want to try to support the way Spotify is doing. chapter markers, is making the argument, hey, listeners come first, even if Spotify is making it tougher on everybody. I totally agree with James like we've got to make sure the listeners are coming first. I still don't even if Buzzsprout was 100% in on let's make the Spotify thing work. I mean, it would require something like we're updating the timestamps ourselves and then editing everybody's descriptions in real time. It could be a real kind of a mess. But you know, it's always good to have that perspective. And I appreciate finding out that James is a listener of the show.

Jordan: 49:23

Tom Raftery sent us 1000 SATs. Hey folks, thanks for great episode. Today. I enabled subscriptions on both my podcast digital supply chain and my recently rebranded climate confident podcast. I particularly enjoyed the sports explanation of the end because being based outside the US and seeing the headlines about the game online, I had no idea now it all makes sense. You and me both Tom I had to have a football explainer going on. It was like a little wiki how like understanding football. Last episode. That's not something I thought we were gonna be talking about the end but so glad you enabled subscriptions and you have to let us know how it's going.

Kevin: 50:00

And then Keiran from at Mere Mortals Podcast sent us a row of ducks. I got the numerology down now it's 2222. And he says boo to Spotify, but they all have really grubby hands as well, with a silly emoji at the end. That's a joke. We know some really nice people. And I'm sure he does, he does as well at work at Spotify. They're nice people. We just don't love the business practices in terms of how they're approaching podcasting. So he goes on to say, I've actually had those timestamps in parenthesis for over two years now. So he's referring to the way that Spotify is requesting that people do chapter markers and their podcasts. And he says, But I only put them in there because they work for YouTube as well. And I just had Oscar from the Fountain app on the Mere Mortals Podcast if you're interested in his thoughts on comments and value for value as a business. So yeah, hop over to mere mortals podcast and listen to the interview. Thanks for supporting the show here.

Alban: 50:43

And one of the tweets at least that I got to the Buzzcast podcast account from Eric Nordhoff. This week Buzzsprout. I love the new episode. The subscription pathway is awesome. The only thing I severely disliked was the post show hashtag Titan is maybe the only Titans fan I've ever met or at least long enough to like them. Maybe the only time I've ever met and liked Titans are the Jaguars probably our biggest rival because we both been terrible together for so long. But after I responded and said about picture my daughter and I at the game he admitted to my good experience. So Eric, friend of the show, hopefully things look better for you in your football next year.

Jordan: 51:25

And then we got another tweet from David John Clark at the Late Bloomer Actor podcast. This is awesome team. Being a smaller podcast, I'm nowhere near being able to use Buzzsprout adverts, but this gives me a chance to monetize now I just need some supporters willing to help out. Love Your Work team. Thanks, Dave,

Kevin: 51:42

The Late Bloomer Actor podcast. So if that sounds like something you'd be interested listening to go check it out. And if you've received value, return it to David,

Jordan: 51:49

Thanks for listening and keep podcasting. Well, it's a 31st of January. And when I used to work at the accounting firm, I used to just be so bugged by all the business owners that would like turn in their 1099 information on January 30. I used to get so angry with them. And it was just like, I'd be working like really late into the night trying to like file these things. Guess what I did last night.

Alban: 52:16

Sent your 1099s?

Jordan: 52:17

I literally like because I got sick last week I was I was planning on doing all of my bookkeeping for the podcast this month. At some point, I was like, Oh, I've got like plenty of time. Well, things just kept like coming up and happening. And then I got sick, and I wasn't feeling well enough. And then I kind of like forgot, because I was sick. And then the 30th like snuck up on me. And I looked at the calendar, and I was just like, Oh, no! So I literally did all of my bookkeeping for the entirety of 2022 last night. And then I filed my 1099-NEC for my editor at the 11th hour. I have become what I hated most.

Kevin: 53:01

It happens to the best of us. That's all right. Yeah, this time of year I start. It's creeping in already. I'm feeling it. And it will continue until around April 1. But for some reason, in my mind, I've always just kind of set April 1 as the deadline for myself to have all my tax documents prepared and ready to go. Which is like way, way too late for them. Like they're completely stressed out. But like April 1, I dump all this stuff on the desk. I'm like, yeah, here you go.

Alban: 53:27

This is why a few years ago, Kevin was like, you know, a lot of people end up having to do extensions. Alvin and I was like, done extension. And now I realize makes sense, right? You think a lot of people are doing extensions. Right?

Kevin: 53:39

But it doesn't help. It doesn't help me, obviously doesn't help them at all the accountants are like, they hate me. But for me, the tension is building because there's this big to do, it's going to take a lot of time. I always feel like I missed something. They always come back to me and request more stuff, and I gotta go do it. So it's this big thing. And I just put it off, I just put it off, put it on put off instead of saying, hey, why don't you change something so that your life is better? And like try to have them everything they need by February 15. But I don't so I'm going to continue the stress is just going to watch you'll see if you interact with me I will slowly become a worse person to be around between now and April 1. Oh, now there's a folder that just keeps getting heavier on my back.

Jordan: 54:17

You're not going to Podcast Movement Evolutions, are you?

Kevin: 54:24

No, no. Yeah, I don't know who else who else does that. But gosh, what a life accountants have. It's a terrible time of year not only do they have a buttload of work to do, but then they have to deal with people like me that just put it off and put it off to the last possible second, and then dump all this stuff on him. Well, we know that we're stepping into tax season. There are some people who listen to the show that I know work in the tax business, Dave Jones being one of them. But if you are also one of those people, our thoughts and prayers are with you as we enter the stressful season not only for the people who are filing taxes late but also for the people who are preparing them. And so get out there support your governments pay what you owe, do it right and do it early. Do it off and let's all have a happy healthy tax season. Thanks for the reminder, Jordan.

Jordan: 55:00

You're welcome.